OK Cafe Co-Owner Responds To Cryptic ‘Lives That Matter’ Banner, Addresses Georgia Flag Art

'...Have you wondered yet; who will be held responsible to repay all the business owners for their losses? Will it be Black Lives Matter? Will it be regular taxpayers who did nothing wrong?...'
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What Now Atlanta (WNA) on Monday obtained a series of emails between OK Cafe Co-Owner Susan DeRose and one of her former employees LaeTania M. Richardson about a cryptic banner the restaurant over the weekend adorned to its exterior while simultaneously hosting a “Tea Party” in the parking lot.

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The banner, which states, “Lives That Matter Are Made With Positive Purpose,” arrives as Black Lives Matter (BLM) organizers are leading protests worldwide to shed light on police brutality and systemic racism.

Social media posts with pictures of the banner quickly spread Sunday night alongside comments of confusion over what the owners of OK Cafe intended with the perplexing message.

Richardson’s exchange—which kicks off with an inquiry about a Georgia flag featuring the Confederate battle emblem that once was prominently displayed inside of OK Cafe for years—provides some insight on the restaurant’s position.

“I use to write the letters to disgruntled OK Cafe customers regarding the flag,” Richardson in an email told WNA.

“It was degrading for me as a black woman to defend DeRose’s stance on the flag.”

Here’s the exchange in its entirety (a statement from DeRose to WNA follows):

Richardson

Susan,

I’m curious to know if you still have the Confederate Flag on display at the OK CAFE! I remember how degrading it was for me as a BLACK WOMAN to write a response defending your reasoning for its display.

You once told me it was to express the pride you had for family members who fought in the war! Albeit a war they lost.

I understand you had a “sweet tea party” today. No pun intended..I’m sure! This is an insult to your African American employees and I pray they all find work somewhere else!

I’ll be sure to pass this message for you as well!

DeRose

Hi—not sure who this is as you didn’t sign your name and your email address is a bit vague?? I have never asked anyone to write a response for the reason I have the flag at OKC.

About that Georgia Flag. That was the state flag for 18 years of OKC’s life. When the flag was changed I kept our flag up—as an honor. I am very proud of that flag because under that flag I was given full rights, full access to all things America has to offer. That has never been done before for women—it’s HUGE!

In 1964 our state took on this great change with grace and moved forward with no interruptions. I am proud of Georgia! I have been able to succeed, to pursue my happiness in ways I know best. I serve…with gratitude and integrity.

Yes, the Tea Party Sign meant Taxation Without Representation. I suppose you know, businesses across America are being looted and burned down. We need our tax dollars spent on stopping this brutality. When the businesses are gone you will be living in a 3rd World country.

If you work now or once worked at OKC, you know we are a company made up of people who are White, Black, Hispanic, Asian.  We are Democrats, Republicans, and libertarians; we are straight and we are gay. At OKC we are all the colors and flavors of this country…and WE ARE NOT BEING PROTECTED. Have you wondered yet; who will be held responsible to repay all the business owners for their losses? Will it be Black Lives Matter? Will it be regular taxpayers who did nothing wrong? 

Selfish, cruel, and destructive people took businesses across America to their knees. Hard-working people lost. The question is—who will pay?

Your last two sentences make it seem as though you are angry with me or with the OK Cafe—I am sorry you have taken my stance wrongly and hope now you see I too have a view.

Richardson

Thanks for clarity! Never confuse passion with anger. I’ll be sure to post your response.

DeRose

Ok, I won’t. And please never confuse passion with hatred or imagine racism where there is none. We are all truly blessed and it seems this is the right time for all Americans to shout out a big thank you, then let’s move forward, making America a wonderful place to live. 

NO MORE VIOLENCE 
NO MORE LOOTING 
NO MORE DESTRUCTION 
NO MORE HURTING INNOCENT PEOPLE AND THEIR LIVELIHOOD.

Richardson

Susan,

As promised, I’ve gone ahead and sent your response to several media outlets and posted it on all social media platforms. I wanted everyone to see your point of view.

Interestingly enough the US military has banned the Confederate flag for the obvious reasons but  as you stated you want  to hold onto it “with honor.”

I JUST read an article saying “when racism’s explicit expression becomes taboo, it hides in coded language.”

Not sure if you’ve had a moment today between making “ sweet tea” and YOUR stance for as you say the “brutality of property” and how the looters have put America on its “knees” (love the way you chose your words) to read your reviews on Yelp!

DeRose

Good Morning Lea, 

It’s ok if you sent something to the media but FYI we do NOT have a confederate flag at the OK Cafe. I have never owned a Confederate flag. OK Cafe has a GEORGIA flag which is a piece of art—carved by an artist from New Mexico. Many people love that piece of art—and they certainly deserve to have an opinion too. 

I understand you want to make a point, but facts also matter—and your facts are not correct.

Hopefully, all this ill-will will be behind us soon and good-will prevails. The aim is peace on earth—remember. 

And accusing others of doing something wrong, when they did not, and claiming people have hate, where they do not, is not fair nor just.

We were making a point with our signs – as we have the right to do. All this violence has caused deep and horrific damage across the nation—to innocent people. Hurting innocent people is not the way to make a point and should not be allowed. No one is talking about this!

It is business that makes this country go round. Hopefully, you are not against the USA as we are the fairest country the world has ever known. Can we improve? Of course, and we always have. That is why the USA is still the beacon to the rest of the world.

Lea—we probably have more in common than against so let’s meet someday on the neutral ground and share story of our lives and loves (as our Marvin Gay quote said).

DeRose confirmed the email exchange with WNA Monday and provided the following statement:

The violence that has been allowed to be a part of this BLM movement is hurting small businesses that makeup America. Who will pay to put them back in business? Why aren’t they being protected? And it is very worrisome that signs of positive thinking are now under attack. These attackers do not know our company or they would certainly never write what they do. Why not speak to our employees—many who have been with us for decades?

FYI The GA flag—which we had carved and was the state flag for the first 18 years of our business life, has nothing to do with racism. I’ve made that point clear. but here we go again; I am a female who got my civil rights as this flag flew over our state capital, I am proud of what those men did. It was 1st in history! And I have been able to succeed and employ hundreds of people, of all races and creeds, for over 40 years. 

I am sorry the few who don’t know history (mine and America’s) can’t understand why I love my artwork but I will not be bullied into removing what they insist I must. Others tried similar antics some 75 years ago—but the USA fought against them and won.

Thank God. 

My company, Liberty House, has a fine and good reputation and mean-spirited people seek now to destroy us unless I obey their demands. Very scary stuff. But I stand for the positive purpose and responsible capitalism. 

I suppose you have an opposing opinion.

This great country gives you the right to have yours as I have mine. Neither of us has the right to demand others to kneel to our demands. And the press should not be allowed to tell lies about good people with good intentions. I hope this makes my point.

I thought the sign says it all.

Be positive and carry on…with positive purpose. Our company has a LONG history of making this point. 

BTW many people are hearing about attacks on our company today and are disturbed and want to know if they need to protect us. I am saying NO. Calmer and more logical heads always prevail. But the press has a need and a responsibility to report accurately. We are under attack just because we thought we had the right to speak up too (and we even brought tea and lemonade 🙂 

Our tea party sign was in reference to America’s Tea Party 1773. Taxation without representation…Small businesses are not being protected/represented but ARE paying big taxes. 

Business is here to serve—all Americans. As an independent who is not afraid to speak out, we stand to say—protect small businesses—stop looting and burning us down. And now—stop the racist posting against people who are themselves not racist. Small businesses are the fabric of this country! Don’t destroy us.

Other restaurants are openly in support of BLM and are aiding protesters in Atlanta (click here to see what those eateries are doing).

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I.P.30307since1987!
1 month ago

And this is what happens when you use your business to make social, political, or religious commentary.
You run the possibility that your message gets misconstrued or the fact that some people just don’t agree/like your message, and then you’ve got to be constantly explaining yourself.
Then it gets in the media, and then everybody starts jacking-up your Yelp page.

Drew
1 month ago

They know exactly what they’re doing.

I.P.30307since1987!
1 month ago
Reply to  Drew

Welp, freedom of speech.
People have the right to say just about anything they want.
They should just remember that that right comes with responsibilities and possible consequences.

Rhi
1 month ago

Everyone of her (the restaurant ow er’s) statements/responses were bullshit and further pushes the fact that America was always built (BY BLACKS mind you) for benefit of whites ALONE who always want to be protected by that same America regardless of what injustices are happening to minorities. That my friend is the privilege she so ignorantly fails to recognize. She is totally part of the PROBLEM and will feel the pain as we fight for a solution the same way it was done throughout the history of this perilous and racist country.

MidtownMark
1 month ago
Reply to  Rhi

The problem with that is black lives are in the most danger from other blacks and that is rarely if never addressed by the movement. There are also a lot of Italian, Irish, German, Greek, and Jewish (from many different countries) immigrants who would disagree with your statement that Blacks built America. Once again just another in a long line of falsehoods that are spouted by a movement that tells us up is down and left is right. Look at the statistics and data it does NOT support what BLM claims.

Stacy B.
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

White privilege is the cousin of white supremacy and is responsible for a lighter racism it fortified through indifference. People with umbrellas don’t know or care how cold and wet the rain makes those who aren’t covered!

alenworn
1 month ago
Reply to  Stacy B.

Is there prejudice still in America? yes there always will be, we are not perfect as a nation. But continuing to hold a victim mentality is backfiring on the justice you seek. There is no white privilege, there is ‘earned privilege’. people have to do the work to get ahead, no exempting the SAT, no exempting final exams, no special treatment. A helping hand yes.

cwl
1 month ago
Reply to  alenworn

right, there’s no white privilege. My black boss is a 1%er yet he still has to give his kids “the talk” even though they live in white af Cobb county. Or how Sterling Brown (NBA player) makes millions and still get tased for improper racial profiling. Keep telling yourself there’s no white privilege

Stacy B.
1 month ago
Reply to  cwl

White privilege IS telling people who aren’t white there is NO privilege! I’m a white woman who sees my privilege everyday. I too didn’t WANT to see it! However, when a friend pointed a few things out to me I was willing to see it from their perspective and NOT try to defend what they were saying. Sadly, most people listen to to defend not the HEAR! White privilege is the awful women in NY who attempted to call the cops on African American man because she was upset that he asked her to put her dog on a leash!

Stacy B.
1 month ago
Reply to  alenworn

White privilege IS telling people who aren’t white there is NO privilege! I’m a white woman who sees my privilege everyday. I too didn’t WANT to see it! However, when a friend pointed a few things out to me I was willing to see it from their perspective and NOT try to defend what they were saying. Sadly, most people listen to to defend not the HEAR! White privilege is the awful women in NY who attempted to call the cops on African American man because she was upset that he asked her to put her dog on a leash!… Read more »

MidtownMark
1 month ago
Reply to  RevJack

The biggest danger to black people (men and women) in America isn’t white people, police, teachers, professors, bankers, or anything else. It’s other black people specifically black males aged 17-35 like the one who killed David Dorn. White people by far are more likely to be a victim of a violent crime or a murder by a black person than the reverse. White people are killed by police officers far more often than black people when you take into account the amount of violent crime and the amount of police interactions each respective group has. I used to be a… Read more »

Stacy B.
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

Well if your statics are correct! WHITE people should be just as outraged! However, you do understand that black people only make up 13% of the population. While you’re doing your research. I invite you to look at the 13th Amendment on Netflix.

MidtownMark
1 month ago
Reply to  Stacy B.

That’s the problem. Only 13% of the population yet still commit more violent crime than the rest of Americans. Only 13% of the population yet still commit more violent crime and murder and come into contact with police more often than populations five times that. Did you fail statistics? I used to believe the false narrative until I managed to actually research the FBI and DOJ crime statistics myself. The sentiment may be controversial, but it is borne out by the facts. The murder rate is incredibly skewed with whites being killed by blacks at a extremely disproportional rate than… Read more »

Stacy B.
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CBMIPVIii82/?igshid=1uidk2cq7g11n

Sometimes it takes me a little levity to help people who don’t understand…UNDERSTAND!

By the way! I enjoy my Netflix!

I.P.30307since1987!
1 month ago
Reply to  Stacy B.

Ohmygosh, that was too funny!
 

Stacy B.
1 month ago

RIGHT???

All they are asking for is to MATTER! People love to get hung up on semantics! Thank GOD black people are only asking for equality and NOT revenge. Damn shame WE are still having this discussion in 2020!

AtlantaChuck
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

I don’t blame you for looking at statistics. I think what you’re failing to possibly see is that the system white people have built in this country without the voices of black people for centuries because black people have either been considered property or separate but equal, is that the system itself is rigged against them. Create ghettos, redline where they live so they can’t get loans or own property, seed the communities they live in with drugs and then incarcerate the males taking fathers out of the homes, and what do you think you’ve created? Rap is just a… Read more »

MidtownMark
1 month ago
Reply to  AtlantaChuck

its telling you want me to watch Amazon or Netflix than look at the actual data available to us. The FBI and DOJ statistics speak for themselves. That sentiment might be controversial but it is supported by the facts. Plenty of people have been falsely accused and on death row. That isn’t exclusive to black people. How about you open your eyes and look at the actual data we have and use that to fix the problem and not Amazon or Netflix documentaries that are poisonous to the narrative they promote? I agree let’s fix the system for everyone and… Read more »

AtlantaChuck
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

What part of “systemic racism” did you not understand? Keep your knee on the neck of black people. Ignorance is bliss.

MidtownMark
1 month ago
Reply to  AtlantaChuck

Systemic racism even if it is to be believed isn’t the answer for these incredibly skewed FBI and DOJ violent crime, Gun crime, and murder statistics. I know it might be hard for you to accept them heck it was hard for me at first after I realized I had been lied to and believed a completely false and flawed narrative since 2016 but although it might hurt and yes, it can be controversial those are the facts and we need to use them to get this fixed for all Americans not just a select few. The problem with that… Read more »

AtlantaChuck
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

Mark, saying blacks are more at risk at the hands of black still fails to acknowledge why? Why are these stats the way they are? To not acknowledge the proverbial knee on the neck of black people by the systems set up in America, fails to acknowledge the disease. You’re only acknowledging the symptoms, and thus perpetuating the systemic racism by blaming the victim. It seems you’re smart enough to read charts and graphs, but you’ve failed to study history. That was the reason for us asking you to watch those DOCUMENTARIES. It’s history. Use your keen sense of deductive… Read more »

MidtownMark
1 month ago
Reply to  AtlantaChuck

No system out there is making black people kill other black people at high rates nor is it making or forcing black people to commit violent crimes or murder against other ethnic groups in America in extremely disproportionate numbers than the reverse. What groups like BLM are saying is a completely fraudulent and false narrative and I refuse to participate in such. There was a time when I was exactly like you but then I looked at the actual statistics and data regarding these issues and I was horrified because I was being lied to and manipulated by special interest… Read more »

eRosewater
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

You’ve gotta get arrested to show up in the crime stats, a huge point of the protests is that minorities are over-policed while others get off with warnings or lesser charges.   Focusing on the gross numbers ignores a lot of nuance. First off, it ignores the whole context of how we got here. But on a more basic level, it misses the literal point of the protests. This isn’t about white people killing black people. It’s about systemic racism in the police force and their excessive use of force. And yes, cops can be black. And their victims can… Read more »

MidtownMark
1 month ago
Reply to  eRosewater

It’s about systemic racism in the police force and their excessive use of force. Correct and studies, statistics, and data show that what BLM and other special interest groups along with the media who distribute this narrative are claiming is false. Its a lie. It doesn’t exist in the way that they say it does. Black people are not the greatest victims of excessive force by police it is actually white and Hispanics that are the victims. Percentage of arrest-related deaths classified as Homicides (by race):   Whites: 69% Hispanics: 67% Blacks: 64% https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ardppsrsm.pdf   The death rate by cop… Read more »

eRosewater
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

I literally said this was about justice, not kill count and you typed out a whole wall of stats about death rates.
 
If you think minorities are treated fairly and equally by the cops, I’m not sure what world you’re living in. And if you don’t think policing in America involves way too much violence (against all ethnicity), same comment.

MidtownMark
1 month ago
Reply to  eRosewater

And if you don’t think policing in America involves way too much violence (against all ethnicity), same comment. Then why are we focusing on the group that is literally not the most impacted by police violence? Why do you keep perpetuating a lie? Why not use the statistics we have to fix the actual problems not one that has been exposed over and over as being a fake and false narrative? That is the issue. Yes, we need to demilitarize the police and black people are not the victims of police violence or violent crime or murders by white people.… Read more »

Stacy B.
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

Mark let’s use this as a teachable moment. Please point us all in the direction of your FBI and DOJ statistics to you so fondly speak of. Please don’t respond with “YOU do the research.”

I gave you something helpful and useful to watch. Quid pro quo…

MidtownMark
1 month ago
Reply to  Stacy B.

Sure Stacy B. hopefully you will accept these facts and be able to admit (sadly) like I did after looking at this that you have indeed been duped and conned by a false narrative. https://scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/publications/empirical-analysis-racial-differences-police-use-force https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2019/the-truth-behind-racial-disparities-in-fatal-police-shootings/ https://nursing.wsu.edu/2016/04/27/study-found-race-matters-police-shootings-results-may-surprise Here is maybe the most telling stat: A black person killed at the hands of another person… 6.98% chance that person is a cop… 82.3% chance that person is another black person. Whereas, for a white person killed… 11.36% chance that person is a cop… 71.1% chance that person is white.   This is just the expanded homicide table 3 of the UCR… Read more »

Stacy B.
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark
Stacy B.
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

Yes I love my pictures!

22213BE3-E1B2-4B1D-B0E8-5D8C6E22BA37.png

cwl
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

im quoting your own reference from   https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/empirical_analysis_tables_figures.pdf   “A number of stylized facts emerge from the analysis of the preceding sections. On non-lethal uses of force, there are racial differences – sometimes quite large – in police use of force, even after controlling for a large set of controls designed to account for important contextual and behavioral factors at the time of the police-civilian interaction. As the intensity of use of force increases from putting hands on a civilian to striking them with a baton, the overall probability of such an incident occurring decreases but the racial difference remains… Read more »

cwl
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2019/the-truth-behind-racial-disparities-in-fatal-police-shootings/
 
second source, only refers to police shooting. Eric Garner didn’t get shot, George Floyd didn’t get shot, Freddie Gray didn’t get shot. Another study pinpointed at one specific category driving a specific narrative

MidtownMark
1 month ago
Reply to  Stacy B.

And since you like posting pictures……

blm.jpg

Stacy B.
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

Sadly this graph does not address police brutality amongst African Americans. Which is the matter at hand!

MidtownMark
1 month ago
Reply to  Stacy B.

The many links I posted did in fact address that. Do you accept or reject them?

Stacy B.
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

https://openpolicing.stanford.edu/findings/

You sent me an MSU review here’s a Stanford review on policing.

Do you accept or reject what I have sent?

MidtownMark
1 month ago
Reply to  Stacy B.

I posted 3 separate studies all from different sources that came to the same conclusion on policing. I posted DOJ statistics that came to the same conclusion on policing. None of them support the narrative BLM and other organizations are telling us. The violent crime statistics I posted also do not support what BLM is claiming. The biggest victims of violent crime in this country compared to the amount of crime they commit are white and Asians. The biggest victims of police violence in this country are whites and Latino/Hispanics. When does the protesting start?

Stacy B.
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

Last one and then I need to sit with my family for movie night! Good night

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/police_mort_open.pdf

alenworn
1 month ago
Reply to  Stacy B.

police are responding to 911 calls often made by blacks to violent crimes being committed. A violent confrontation often ensues and unfortunate incidents happen. Arrests are not pretty. When I am stopped by a police officer (and it has happened multiple times) I comply with the officer’s demands. I don’t resist, yell and scream. It is really not that hard.

E davis
1 month ago
Reply to  Rhi

You know what? You are scary and I am pretty sure you want to be. I might tell you though that not everyone is afraid of your cheap words. You may not win this fight of yours and more than likely will wind up doing great and irreversible damage to the cause you are hiding behind. Actually, you just disgust me. There is no need to reply to this as I will NOT converse with people who think the only allowed opinions are theirs.

I.P.30307since1987!
1 month ago
Reply to  E davis

Take a deep breath…
You’ll feel better.

Stacy B.
1 month ago
Reply to  E davis

Wow! Cheap words! Hmmm let’s see
disgusting and scary! I think those qualify! You light a match, start a fire then leave the room. What about civil discourse? Clearly, you’re not interested. As the teenagers say, BYE Felicia! Don’t cha just love that colloquialism!
It think it’s quite appropriate.

alenworn
1 month ago
Reply to  E davis

agreed, this movement has no tolerance for dissenting voices, they seek to dominate, unfortunately many people don’t have a spine to say enough is enough. This ‘movement’ is going to boomerang. People are sick of it

alenworn
1 month ago
Reply to  Rhi

quit being a victim , I have no problem giving blacks a helping to take part in what America has to offer. You should check out a program called ‘YearUp’, a program that helps minorities move up to higher paying job and opportunities. We hired an individual from that program and his awesome. But continuing to cry racism at every turn is not working

Linda
1 month ago

She never addressed the “Lives that matter are made with positive purpose” poster directly.

1 month ago

coded racism hidden behind trite platitudes is still racism

Karen McCarther
1 month ago

Hello

Karen McCarther
1 month ago

What she was saying is property and things mean more than black people’s lives. No mention of George Floyd murdered I cold blood just business owners loosing “stuff”. I’m other words, Black Lives Don’t Matter.

alenworn
1 month ago

black lives do matter as well as all lives, we all agree GF’s killing should not have happened, but when you commit crimes and resist arrest things get ugly. people should not put themselves in these situations, but when confronted by police, do what they tell you, it is really not that hard

I.P.30307since1987!
1 month ago

Hi Karen.
Would you like to speak with the manager?

RevJack
1 month ago

I’m still confused as to why the Georgia Flag with confederate emblem signifies her gaining her civil rights? What am I missing?

Stacy B.
1 month ago
Reply to  RevJack

EXACTLY! That was FEDERAL law! All of her points that she attempted to make are regurgitated rhetoric. At the end of the day she should have said, “I DONT GIVE A F’CK!

Women’s suffrage in the United States of America, the legal right of women to vote, was established over the course of more than half a century, first in various states and localities, sometimes on a limited basis, and then nationally in 1920.

It was until 1965 that the “Voting Rights Act” where black women were allowed to vote. Her white privilege is run rampant in her response!

Meredith S.
1 month ago
Reply to  RevJack

Even though the Nineteenth Amendment became federal law in 1920, Georgia women were barred from voting until 1922. The amendment wasn’t officially ratified and approved by the state legislature until 1970, so to try to spin a representation of one of the most retardataire states in the Union when it came to grudgingly allowing the civil rights the federal government recognized a half-century ago as a proud moment for anything is about as lame as you can get.

eRosewater
1 month ago

These messages don’t paint the owner as a flaming racist, but they do at the very least display a certain level of ignorance and insensitivity. The more objectionable pieces:   Pretending the Georgia flag had nothing to do with the confederate flag… Incorrectly believing that the right to speak your mind also comes with the privilege of not being criticized for it… Placing prosperity (yea, it’s great your business did well) over basic human rights of others… Portraying an overwhelmingly peaceful protest movement as a barbaric wave of violence and rioting (I’d bet Atlantans spend more money on chicken sandwiches… Read more »

I.P.30307since1987!
1 month ago
Reply to  eRosewater

We don’t need to normalize looting, destruction of property, and assault, etc as a part of protesting.

Stacy B.
1 month ago

I don’t think anyone is normalizing the looting. She painstakingly makes the argument about the loss of property and not the loss of LIFE. And while we are on flags…let’s drop back through the history of the confederate flag and pop holes in that BS too. After The Civil War the confederate flag was basically forgotten about for ONE HUNDRED YEARS!!!! Do you know why all the sudden the flag reappeared ONE HUNDRED YEARS AFTER THE CIVIL WAR???? It was NOT apart of state flags or other official symbols or displays for almost 100 years! It was brought back during… Read more »

I.P.30307since1987!
1 month ago
Reply to  Stacy B.

Two wrongs don’t make a right.
eRosewater is a he, and I’ve had plenty of discussions with him.
And I made no mention of a Confederate flag.

Stacy B.
1 month ago

The she I am referring to is Susan. I
made mention of the Confederate Flag to give others who have or will comment a history lesson! So that when and IF they try to justify waving it they will know it’s origin. This is just civil discourse.

I.P.30307since1987!
1 month ago
Reply to  Stacy B.

Well then maybe you replied to me in error, because I was speaking directly to eRosewater. He seems to downplay the loss of property, destruction, violence, and assault as an acceptable symptom of protest. I think we can be horrified by the unacceptable loss of human life, and also be pissed off about the rioting. Everybody thinks that insurance companies will take care of personal/commercial property damages and losses (at current value). I have plenty of experience with insurance companies to know better. And all those police cars that got torched– guess who’s paying for that? You and me. I… Read more »

Stacy B.
1 month ago

I agree that we can be both outraged at the loss of property and the loss of life. Property can be rebuilt. Sadly, someone that was MURDERED will never have that luxury. Her response does not address the later.

I.P.30307since1987!
1 month ago
Reply to  Stacy B.

Two wrongs do not make a right.
I don’t think you understand the victimized small businessperson.
Some of this damage is going to be the last straw.
But hey, I’ve seen plenty of peaceful protests.

Stacy B.
1 month ago

I do as I too am a business owner. Thankfully, I have GOOD insurance to cover the broken windows. One should never assume. As for violent vs. peaceful. I leave you with this!

Stacy B.
1 month ago

Damned if you do! Damned if you don’t!

81AE568A-EE3C-40EB-A2FF-34D2DD7C4733.jpeg

eRosewater
1 month ago

I’m with you. Looting isn’t acceptable. Rioting isn’t achieving anything. Perpetrators should face consequences. It’s not normal. It shouldn’t be normalized.
 
BUT
 
I have always argued that we need to bring nuance back to our discussions. Whether it’s lies being told by politicians or contextualizing the violence surrounding these protests, degree and severity matters. And the reality in this situation is that the significance of mass protests across the country vastly outweighs the (completely wrong and unacceptable) violence that accompanied them in the beginning.

alenworn
1 month ago
Reply to  eRosewater

agree with you that free speech can result in criticism from both sides, that is America, but your prosperity argument is flawed. The protests started out as total destruction and mayhem in Minnesota which now looks like a war zone. These tactics which were quickly copied in other cities. Mayor Bottoms and Chief Shields decided to take a chance the first Friday evening by letting the protest continue after dark, and we all know the result, millions of dollars in damage. Not until overwhelming force was brought in did the protests become peaceful. Many black owned businesses are left trying… Read more »

eRosewater
1 month ago
Reply to  alenworn

I saw very little damage in a later protest. I also disagree that it was overwhelming force that stopped the violence. There were protest leaders on megaphones telling people to obey the curfew and to stick to the right streets/areas. Looting and violence plays into the hands of those that oppose the protests, protesters took decisive action to prevent it.

Stacy B.
1 month ago
L. Walter Smith
1 month ago

I totally understand the Co-owners perspective. What I dont understand is her assumption and insinuation that black lives matters should pay for businesses that are being destroyed. When white kids shoot up schools, when white men shoot up businesses, there is no outcry for anyone to pay for the damages. To be clear – do not agree with the looting and rioting. To be clear there are white looters and agitators. Want proof? To be clear that there are people that are protesting that are not a part of black lives matter; there are people (black, white, Asian, gay, straight,… Read more »

L. Walter Smith
1 month ago

I understand the Co-owners perspective. What I dont understand is her assumption and insinuation that black lives matters should pay for businesses that are being destroyed. When white kids shoot up schools, when white men should have businesses, there is no outcry for anyone to pay for the damages. To be clear – do not agree with the looting and rioting. To be clear there are white looters and agitators. Want proof? To be clear that there are people that are protesting that are not a part of black lives matter; there are people (black, white, Asian, gay, straight, soccer… Read more »

DaMo
1 month ago

First of all, this is just crappy reporting. It’s crappy for someone to have a private email exchange with someone and then share it with media outlets. Kind of like entrapment. But again, crappy reporting to play into that by making this public. Black lives matter has become a witch hunt. Everyone who doesn’t outwardly support it is labeled a racist. Anyone who doesn’t buy into the false narrative of police brutality and racism is racist. Pointing out legitimate stats that clearly disprove the notion of systematic racism is racist. Taking issue with aimless looting and violence and vandalism is… Read more »

Stacy B.
1 month ago
Reply to  DaMo

Ummmm she was informed that it would be posted and continued to engage in the conversation. I guess all the people across the world are just not getting your point of view.

DaMo
1 month ago

It’s a copy paste of an email chain. Just doesn’t seem newsworthy.

eRosewater
1 month ago
Reply to  DaMo

This is an opinion piece.

I.P.30307since1987!
1 month ago
Reply to  DaMo

This is not crappy reporting.
The email exchange was sent to many media outlets.
It’s a journalists job to follow, and dig deeper.

Stacy B.
1 month ago
Reply to  DaMo

I’ll tell you what … you look around the country (Minneapolis, LA, Denver, New York, Atlanta and a few other cities), and you see the mobs of protesters … AND A LOT OF THOSE FACES ARE WHITE(!) … so one of the bright spots in the wake of this atrocity is a very visible temperature check that reveals how racism, as a generational thing, seems to be attenuating in the herd of young foals galloping out of White America … because these young and rebellious white kids are doing the James Brown out there in the streets! (Along with the… Read more »

DaMo
1 month ago
Reply to  Stacy B.

Kids have watched a dramatic video and are reacting based on emotion, not facts. All this energy directed towards this myth of systematic racism by police will improve nothing.

Stacy B.
1 month ago
Reply to  DaMo

War and rioting have immediately preceded this country’s major civil rights acts and affirmative action. I guess that didn’t improve anything.

Stacy B.
1 month ago
Reply to  DaMo

In the words of my Southern Grand Ma! Bless your heart! #dramticvideo

Stacy B.
1 month ago
Reply to  DaMo

So what has protesting accomplished? Within 10 days of sustained protests: Minneapolis bans use of choke holds. Charges are upgraded against Officer Chauvin, and his accomplices are arrested and charged. Dallas adopts a “duty to intervene” rule that requires officers to stop other cops who are engaging in inappropriate use of force. New Jersey’s attorney general said the state will update its use-of-force guidelines for the first time in two decades. In Maryland, a bipartisan work group of state lawmakers announced a police reform work group. Los Angeles City Council introduces motion to reduce LAPD’s $1.8 billion operating budget. MBTA… Read more »

Alenworn
1 month ago
Reply to  Stacy B.

The protests have generated some positive change in policing. Things that need to be done , and more work is needed. However, My problem with BLM is that it is not about equality, it’s a dangerous political movement bent on control, silence of dissenters, erasing cultural references, socialism and Marxism. The true meaning is being drowned out. You can follow the money. Now the word racism is thrown around so much it doesn’t mean anything. We all know what racism looks like, and there’s no place for it. But trying to silence opposing views with extortion , threats, is a… Read more »

Tony T.
1 month ago
Reply to  DaMo

DaMo,   I’m not trying to convince you be less of the problem, but, how do you know police brutality and systematic racism against Black people are false? I know both liberal and conservative Black people and not one has said these issues don’t exist. Some just pivot to “Black on Black crime,” which they all agree needs to be addressed. History shows that the U.S. has done everything possible to create all the issues, especially those issues associated with poverty, that Black people are experiencing in this country. You should read about this.   If 10/10 people told you… Read more »

MidtownMark
1 month ago
Reply to  Tony T.

It isn’t that police brutality doesn’t exist or happen to black people. The issue is it doesn’t happen to the level that some groups want you to believe it does and the truth is there are actually two other groups of Americans out there that are the victims of police brutality at a higher rate (percentage) yet it is ignored and shouted down. That is the issue. Same with interracial crime statistics. They are grossly disproportionate but you would never know it unless you looked yourself at the numbers. I don’t know about you but I don’t like being mislead… Read more »

Tony T.
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

Why does it matter how often it happens or who it happens to more? It shouldn’t happen at all. No police officer in this country should kill a person who doesn’t present an immediate danger to their life. Pointing out “WhO geTs KilLed the moSt” seems like your attempt to discredit their complaints. Nonetheless, I think the BLM movement encompasses all POC. I’ve never seen a BLM supporter suggest that the U.S. should forget the struggles of other POC.   And maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t remember seeing videos over and over again of other innocent (non-Black) people being… Read more »

MidtownMark
1 month ago
Reply to  Tony T.

And maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t remember seeing videos over and over again of other innocent (non-Black) people being killed by the police. That’s just the point and the problem. The statistics tell us it just isn’t black people and not only that but black people are not being killed by police at a higher rate. Its a false narrative. A lie. You are correct that when a white person is killed by police or a black person it isn’t news. Nobody cares. Same goes for Latinos and Asians. The statistics tell us black people do not face police… Read more »

DaMo
1 month ago
Reply to  Tony T.

In terms of the notion of police racism… No, I’m not just going to agree that all police are systematically racist because people say they are. I look at the stats and studies which indicate they are not (see the WSJ article I posted above). And by the way, making blanket statements about all police is a form of bias and stereotyping. So I take issue with all the “F the police”, rioting, violence towards police. I think police are generally individuals who are committed to a life of service and making the world a better place – all while… Read more »

eRosewater
1 month ago
Reply to  DaMo

No, I’m not just going to agree that all police are systematically racist because people say they are.

 
That’s kinda missing the point of systemic racism. If the system (laws, policies, procedure, culture, etc.) has racial bias, individual officers may or may not be racist but the result is the same. That means even a majority-minority police force can have issues because, again, it’s systemic – not based on the individuals involved.

alenworn
1 month ago
Reply to  DaMo

agree 100%, also the new slogan ‘white silence = white racism’ – now we are all racist if we are white and we have to prove otherwise. People should focus on the family unit, where are the parents of these people? How about education, are your kids doing the work expected? Where are their morals, weren’t they taught right and wrong?

eRosewater
1 month ago
Reply to  alenworn

where are the parents of these people?

 
Locked up for minor drug offenses. Offenses that are rarely enforced in more affluent areas.
 

How about education, are your kids doing the work expected?

 
Yes, but their school is failing because they were defunded and people of means just send their kids to the private school down the street where all the good teachers went to earn a decent salary and not have to pay for their own supplies.
 

MidtownMark
1 month ago
Reply to  eRosewater

You are aware that Atlanta Public Schools teachers have far higher average pay than their collegues in Gwinnett, Cobb, and North Fulton? All of which are far better school systems. Your point is false.

eRosewater
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

They also have higher cost of living, but that’s besides the point. The real question is whether any of those systems have pay and benefits on par with Atlanta International School, Holy Innocents, Lovett, Pace, Trinity, Westminster, or the other couple dozen private schools across the metro area?
 
Our public schools are an international embarrassment and our private schools are world-beaters. It’s not hard to understand how that happened or who it benefits.

MidtownMark
1 month ago
Reply to  eRosewater

They also have higher cost of living, but that’s besides the point. So all APS teachers live in the city? Is that what you are saying? How would an APS teacher living in Gwinnett or Cobb have a higher cost of living than a Gwinnett teacher living in Cobb or North Fulton? Not sure if you are aware of this but Private schools don’t typically pay any higher for educators than their public counterparts. Administrators and Counselors? Sure the pay can be higher. Our public schools are an embarrassment because they are full of kids with parents who don’t care… Read more »

Stacy B.
1 month ago

Violent protest vs. Peaceful protest! #dead

7849E452-2930-400B-A99E-386AE340AB20.jpeg

L. Walter Smith
1 month ago
Ally McAllyface
1 month ago

Bless her little mint juleped heart, Ms. DeRose clearly has NO clue what she’s talking about, despite having very clear opinions about it. * People are being murdered by law enforcement every day in this country, but what matters to her is that she saw some stores being looted on Fox News. * She thinks that looters and violent people are “being allowed” by the BLM movement, as if they can somehow control thousands or tens of thousands of protesters. This despite the fact that BLM does NOT condone violence. * She claims that “mean” people are now “trying to… Read more »

Alenworn
1 month ago

BLM is a dangerous political movement with the goal of control, special privileges, silence dissenters (anybody that disagrees is a racist), socialism, and Marxism, you can read it. Don’t be fooled, the worthy goal of equality is just a cover for the real purpose of this movement. Think about it, we all know what real racism is , and it is sickening and there no place for it., I can’t believe it lasted into the 60’s. But we are a great country and made tremendous progress, and we need to snuff out all vestiges of racism, but the BLM has… Read more »

L. Walter Smith
1 month ago

https://twitter.com/tia_ewing/status/1266959468811694080?s=21   Challenge your assumptions. Aholes, addicts, serial/spree killers, wife/child murderers, pedophiles, single mothers, abusive fathers, welfare/(bailout) recipients, looters – come in all colors. Google. Don’t give me the more blacks do this thing – white america is 10x the number of blacks – they will never be “more than” any number than white Americans – ever. And if you say different you are delusional and weak-minded and can’t handle the truth. Or, need to feel superior to someone and as such are part of the problem.   Fact is – No group is an absolute – all absolutely perfect,… Read more »

Scarlett Gonewithwind
1 month ago

So let’s sum up the argument by this business owner, justifying her display of the anti-integration 1950s Georgia flag: “That was the flag when I was born, but I’m not a racist.” Okay, fair enough. But let’s say she was French, born in occupied Paris during WWII, and the only flag displayed in her French restaurant was the Nazi flag that flew when she was a child. Would that make her an anti-Semite? Not necessarily. It just makes her rude, selfish and callous to the suffering of others. It also makes her an ****extraordinarily bad hostess**** in a hospitality industry.… Read more »

citizenseven
1 month ago

75 comments! Now we’re talking!

Teboughtacular
1 month ago

Curbed Atlanta is reborn

KneeRidge
1 month ago

The owner thinks that employing minorities makes her not a racist. If someone finds something you display (Georgia Confederate Flag) offensive the polite answer is to apologize and hopefully take it down. This owners responses to racial concerns continue to be tone deaf. The issue is that people don’t realize what is racist and the irony is the Boston Tea Party was in FACT an act of vandalism and looting.

alenworn
1 month ago

good for you Ms DeRose, we must not be silenced by those that cant stand dissenting views, and that is what this is about, shutting people down because they can’t tolerate people that will not bow. More people should speak out,

alenworn
1 month ago

good for Ms DeRose, dont be intimidated by a small but loud group that continue to call America inherently racist because it is not. Do not be silenced or bullied by the twitter mob. Your fortitude is refreshing to many others who believe like you but are afraid to say anything

Stacy B.
1 month ago
Reply to  alenworn

So what has protesting accomplished? Within 10 days of sustained protests: Minneapolis bans use of choke holds. Charges are upgraded against Officer Chauvin, and his accomplices are arrested and charged. Dallas adopts a “duty to intervene” rule that requires officers to stop other cops who are engaging in inappropriate use of force. New Jersey’s attorney general said the state will update its use-of-force guidelines for the first time in two decades. In Maryland, a bipartisan work group of state lawmakers announced a police reform work group. Los Angeles City Council introduces motion to reduce LAPD’s $1.8 billion operating budget. MBTA… Read more »

MidtownMark
1 month ago
Reply to  Stacy B.

BUT RIGHT NOW, ONLY BLACK LIVES ARE BEING TARGETED, JAILED, AND KILLED EN MASSE

The actual statistics and data do not support this. At all. Black people commit the most violent crime in America by a significant margin so of course there are going to be interactions with police and black people being jailed.

IF YOU CAN’T SEE THIS, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

Here is the actual problem that is being ignored en masse by organizations like BLM:
 
 

blm3.jpg

Planetary Regeneration Now
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

Mr Mark you have flooded this comment section with your crime statistics, but have not provided anything in the way of context or critical analysis. Where are the socio-economic stats that are part and parcel to crime? What do you suppose is the reason for these trends? Are black people simply naturally predisposed towards poverty and criminality? Or might it have something to do with a culture torn violently from its roots and subjected to centuries of slavery, followed by oppression and marginalization in the forms of segregation, redlining, “urban renewal”, discriminatory policing, mass incarceration under dysfunctional “tough on crime”… Read more »

MidtownMark
1 month ago

Asking a group to simply stop committing a huge disproportionate amount of violent crime is not failing to see the big picture. The opposite would be failing to see the big picture. These interactions with police could be greatly reduced if one group would simply stop committing crimes. Being oppressed at some point in history isn’t a license to commit huge amounts of violent crime not only against yourself but everyone else than the reverse. If we want to follow and agree with your logic people of the Jewish faith would have carte blanche to go on violent crime sprees… Read more »

Planetary Regeneration Now
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

What makes you think that it is a “simple” matter? It is really quite complex. What circumstances would cause a relatively small demographic to commit a disproportionate amount of crime? Is it inherent to their nature? If we really believe that all men are created equal (i.e. we aren’t racist), then this is not a reasonable conclusion. We need to dig deeper.   Your quantitative data is useful for developing a naively black and white narrative (no pun intended).  If you want a more nuanced and accurate understanding of the matter though, you need to look at qualitative relationships – reasons and influences. … Read more »

MidtownMark
1 month ago

The solution is simple. Stop committing crimes and more specifically stop committing violent crimes. That doesn’t require any nuance. My grandmother is a Holocaust Survivor. Don’t lecture me on not being able to understand anything or having no empathy or understanding cause and effect. Jewish people aren’t out murdering people or claiming they can’t get a job or get into college because of the Holocaust. It’s ridiculous logic to even suggest such for any group. Nobody can solve the issue of disproportionate violent crimes committed by black people but the actual black people themselves. Stop blaming everyone on planet earth… Read more »

Planetary Regeneration Now
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

So you are completely unwilling to consider that social dysfunction has underlying causes? It must be liberating to have such a simplistic view of the world. I would suggest that African Americans have had (and still have) a qualitatively different experience than other marginalized groups, but what’s the point when you are allergic to nuance?

MidtownMark
1 month ago

There isn’t a populaiton on planet earth that hasn’t experienced social dysfunction. That’s what you can’t understand. Black people were not the first peoples to be enslaved. They were not the first people to suffer oppression. The difference here is other groups did not take the victimization route and just put their heads down and overcame these grave injustices. You don’t see Jewish people claiming everyone is against them and therefore they can’t be productive members of world society and get an education and jobs because of the Holocaust. No. They worked to bring themselves back up for the doorstep… Read more »

Planetary Regeneration Now
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

Don’t act like I said nobody else has experienced social dysfunction. Straw man, much? My argument is that the nature of the social dysfunctions that plague black communities to this day has particular characteristics attributable to their unique underlying causes. African Americans have been subjected to a degree of cultural oppression over the course of their history on this continent that is unparalleled by any other American ethnic group (except for Native Americans, who have had a really terrible time of it as well).   I am impressed by the resiliency of the Jewish people in the face of oppression.… Read more »

MidtownMark
1 month ago

If we claim that the criminal justice system is white-supremacist, why is it that Asian Americans, Indian Americans, and Nigerian Americans are incarcerated at vastly lower rates than white Americans? This is a funny sort of white supremacy. Even Jewish Americans are incarcerated less than gentile whites. I think it’s fair to say that your average white supremacist disapproves of Jews.
 

Logic
1 month ago

1. It’s clear the business owner is a crazy old white lady.

2. It’s unclear why WNA is allowing racist assholes to take over their comment section. One can only assume they condone it. So f*ck y’all.

Alenworn
1 month ago
Reply to  Logic

Why is everyone a “racist” that disagrees? The word has lost its meanest, now all whites are racists just because

Alenworn
1 month ago

History being destroyed.

It is characteristics of a dictatorship.

In this moment these moves are being dictated by a political group that celebrate a singular race and exclude all other races in their narrative.

Are alarm bells not ringing here?

Stacy B.
1 month ago
Reply to  Alenworn
Alenworn
1 month ago

Black Lives Matter is largely a pseudo-radical movement that manipulates the good-will of others to divide people and attain unearned power. If you want to change society, start with yourself, start at home.

Stacy B.
1 month ago
Reply to  Alenworn

They should just shut up…right! What has all this accomplished?? • 5/26 – 4 officers fired for murdering George Floyd 5/28 Univ of Minn cancels contract with police 5/28 3rd precinct police station neutralized by protestors 5/28 ATU Local 1005 refuses to bring police officers to protests, or transport arrested protesters 5/29 Activists commander hotel to provide shelter to homeless 5/29 Officer Chauvin who killed Floyd arrested 5/29 Louisville Mayor suspends “no-knock” warrants in response to polices 3/12 5/30 US Embassies across Africa condemn police murder of Floyd 5/30 MN AG Ellison takes over prosecution of the murdering officer 5/30… Read more »

MidtownMark
1 month ago
Reply to  Stacy B.

That’s great but when do we expect BLM to address the real actual problem here which is the institution of black violent crime not only against other black people but every other major American demographic in disproportionate numbers than the reverse? When will action and accountability be taken there? Because we both know that the statistics tell us lethal violence by police against black people is less than it is against Hispanics and Whites. We also know black people commit far more violent crime against Hispanics and Whites than the reverse. When will these gross injustices be not only denounced… Read more »

Planetary Regeneration Now
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

You keep harping on these statistics of black violence, but your position is paper thin. I really want to know what you attribute this disproportionate violence to. Is there a reason for it all? Are black people inherently savage? Are they cognitively inferior? Or is it just a big mystery to you, and you don’t care to explore the issue in any depth? Please – tell us WHY America is in a situation where black people cause disproportionate violence.

MidtownMark
1 month ago

I keep harping on the statistics because instead of using them to promote a corrective narrative what BLM is doing is ignoring them and making up false narratives that literally do not exist to further their totalitarian agenda which happens to be false and not supported by any data or statistics. My position is supported by facts, statistics, and data. Your position is supported by feelings and the blame game for things that happened an infinity ago. Stop with that insulting argument. The main institution that needs to be abolished and broken up in America is black violent crime. Get… Read more »

Planetary Regeneration Now
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

No, really. I want to know – what do you think is the cause? If black violent crime is the main institution that needs to be abolished, then surely you have some insight as to what might be driving it. I told you why I think it happens, but you reject my reasoning. Don’t dodge my questions, please humor me with a hypothesis based on your facts, statistics, and data.

Stacy B.
1 month ago

Causation takes a step further than correlation. It says any change in the value of one variable will cause a change in the value of another variable, which means one variable makes other to happen. It is also referred as cause and effect.

MidtownMark
1 month ago

Here is the problem with your position. We have people who come to America from all over the world from countries with social dysfunction, bad socioeconomic conditions, and oppression who don’t even speak English when they arrive here yet they are able to thrive and become productive members of American society. They are able to get an education and they are able to get jobs. Many of these people come here from Africa, Middle East, and India all areas where there is still slavery to this very day. How is it these oppressed people can come here and succeed and… Read more »

Planetary Regeneration Now
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

According to Google: “The term “kafkatrapping” describes a logical fallacy that is popular within gender feminism, racial politics and other ideologies of victimhood. It occurs when you are accused of a thought crime such as sexism, racism or homophobia.”   Wow you are evasive. I don’t buy your kafkatrapping argument. I never accused you of racism – in fact I wrote earlier that I don’t think you’re a racist, just an ignoramus with an overly simplistic view of causality. I simply want to know what you attribute as the cause of the disproportionate violence? You present all these statistics, but… Read more »

MidtownMark
1 month ago

I posed a logical answer which is:   Stop killing yourselves and everyone else in disproportionate numbers. Stop committing crimes. Period. Do I need to insert the Jim Carrey meme here? Telling me that institutions are the reasons for out of control crime numbers in 2020 is irrational and risible. White people can’t solve that nor are they responsible. Latino people can’t solve that nor are they responsible. Asian people can’t solve that nor are they responsible. Black people need to look in the mirror and accept what the data, statistics, and facts tell us and work together to stop… Read more »

Stacy B.
1 month ago
Reply to  MidtownMark

Oooh Mark! You keep dodging the question presented to you! I’m over talking to you. Deniability is no longer an option for White America!

Jimmy John
1 month ago

Send us the same owner that used to tell her staff not to see black people by the windows? Isn’t this the same woman has never had a black manager?
Yeah I’m sure she’s not racist

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