What Now Atlanta (WNA) on Monday obtained a series of emails between OK Cafe Co-Owner Susan DeRose and one of her former employees LaeTania M. Richardson about a cryptic banner the restaurant over the weekend adorned to its exterior while simultaneously hosting a “Tea Party” in the parking lot.
The banner, which states, “Lives That Matter Are Made With Positive Purpose,” arrives as Black Lives Matter (BLM) organizers are leading protests worldwide to shed light on police brutality and systemic racism.
Social media posts with pictures of the banner quickly spread Sunday night alongside comments of confusion over what the owners of OK Cafe intended with the perplexing message.
Richardson’s exchange—which kicks off with an inquiry about a Georgia flag featuring the Confederate battle emblem that once was prominently displayed inside of OK Cafe for years—provides some insight on the restaurant’s position.
“I use to write the letters to disgruntled OK Cafe customers regarding the flag,” Richardson in an email told WNA.
“It was degrading for me as a black woman to defend DeRose’s stance on the flag.”
Here’s the exchange in its entirety (a statement from DeRose to WNA follows):
Richardson
Susan,
I’m curious to know if you still have the Confederate Flag on display at the OK CAFE! I remember how degrading it was for me as a BLACK WOMAN to write a response defending your reasoning for its display.
You once told me it was to express the pride you had for family members who fought in the war! Albeit a war they lost.
I understand you had a “sweet tea party” today. No pun intended..I’m sure! This is an insult to your African American employees and I pray they all find work somewhere else!
I’ll be sure to pass this message for you as well!
DeRose
Hi—not sure who this is as you didn’t sign your name and your email address is a bit vague?? I have never asked anyone to write a response for the reason I have the flag at OKC.
About that Georgia Flag. That was the state flag for 18 years of OKC’s life. When the flag was changed I kept our flag up—as an honor. I am very proud of that flag because under that flag I was given full rights, full access to all things America has to offer. That has never been done before for women—it’s HUGE!
In 1964 our state took on this great change with grace and moved forward with no interruptions. I am proud of Georgia! I have been able to succeed, to pursue my happiness in ways I know best. I serve…with gratitude and integrity.
Yes, the Tea Party Sign meant Taxation Without Representation. I suppose you know, businesses across America are being looted and burned down. We need our tax dollars spent on stopping this brutality. When the businesses are gone you will be living in a 3rd World country.
If you work now or once worked at OKC, you know we are a company made up of people who are White, Black, Hispanic, Asian. We are Democrats, Republicans, and libertarians; we are straight and we are gay. At OKC we are all the colors and flavors of this country…and WE ARE NOT BEING PROTECTED. Have you wondered yet; who will be held responsible to repay all the business owners for their losses? Will it be Black Lives Matter? Will it be regular taxpayers who did nothing wrong?
Selfish, cruel, and destructive people took businesses across America to their knees. Hard-working people lost. The question is—who will pay?
Your last two sentences make it seem as though you are angry with me or with the OK Cafe—I am sorry you have taken my stance wrongly and hope now you see I too have a view.
Richardson
Thanks for clarity! Never confuse passion with anger. I’ll be sure to post your response.
DeRose
Ok, I won’t. And please never confuse passion with hatred or imagine racism where there is none. We are all truly blessed and it seems this is the right time for all Americans to shout out a big thank you, then let’s move forward, making America a wonderful place to live.
NO MORE VIOLENCE
NO MORE LOOTING
NO MORE DESTRUCTION
NO MORE HURTING INNOCENT PEOPLE AND THEIR LIVELIHOOD.
Richardson
Susan,
As promised, I’ve gone ahead and sent your response to several media outlets and posted it on all social media platforms. I wanted everyone to see your point of view.
Interestingly enough the US military has banned the Confederate flag for the obvious reasons but as you stated you want to hold onto it “with honor.”
I JUST read an article saying “when racism’s explicit expression becomes taboo, it hides in coded language.”
Not sure if you’ve had a moment today between making “ sweet tea” and YOUR stance for as you say the “brutality of property” and how the looters have put America on its “knees” (love the way you chose your words) to read your reviews on Yelp!
DeRose
Good Morning Lea,
It’s ok if you sent something to the media but FYI we do NOT have a confederate flag at the OK Cafe. I have never owned a Confederate flag. OK Cafe has a GEORGIA flag which is a piece of art—carved by an artist from New Mexico. Many people love that piece of art—and they certainly deserve to have an opinion too.
I understand you want to make a point, but facts also matter—and your facts are not correct.
Hopefully, all this ill-will will be behind us soon and good-will prevails. The aim is peace on earth—remember.
And accusing others of doing something wrong, when they did not, and claiming people have hate, where they do not, is not fair nor just.
We were making a point with our signs – as we have the right to do. All this violence has caused deep and horrific damage across the nation—to innocent people. Hurting innocent people is not the way to make a point and should not be allowed. No one is talking about this!
It is business that makes this country go round. Hopefully, you are not against the USA as we are the fairest country the world has ever known. Can we improve? Of course, and we always have. That is why the USA is still the beacon to the rest of the world.
Lea—we probably have more in common than against so let’s meet someday on the neutral ground and share story of our lives and loves (as our Marvin Gay quote said).
DeRose confirmed the email exchange with WNA Monday and provided the following statement:
The violence that has been allowed to be a part of this BLM movement is hurting small businesses that makeup America. Who will pay to put them back in business? Why aren’t they being protected? And it is very worrisome that signs of positive thinking are now under attack. These attackers do not know our company or they would certainly never write what they do. Why not speak to our employees—many who have been with us for decades?
FYI The GA flag—which we had carved and was the state flag for the first 18 years of our business life, has nothing to do with racism. I’ve made that point clear. but here we go again; I am a female who got my civil rights as this flag flew over our state capital, I am proud of what those men did. It was 1st in history! And I have been able to succeed and employ hundreds of people, of all races and creeds, for over 40 years.
I am sorry the few who don’t know history (mine and America’s) can’t understand why I love my artwork but I will not be bullied into removing what they insist I must. Others tried similar antics some 75 years ago—but the USA fought against them and won.
Thank God.
My company, Liberty House, has a fine and good reputation and mean-spirited people seek now to destroy us unless I obey their demands. Very scary stuff. But I stand for the positive purpose and responsible capitalism.
I suppose you have an opposing opinion.
This great country gives you the right to have yours as I have mine. Neither of us has the right to demand others to kneel to our demands. And the press should not be allowed to tell lies about good people with good intentions. I hope this makes my point.
I thought the sign says it all.
Be positive and carry on…with positive purpose. Our company has a LONG history of making this point.
BTW many people are hearing about attacks on our company today and are disturbed and want to know if they need to protect us. I am saying NO. Calmer and more logical heads always prevail. But the press has a need and a responsibility to report accurately. We are under attack just because we thought we had the right to speak up too (and we even brought tea and lemonade 🙂
Our tea party sign was in reference to America’s Tea Party 1773. Taxation without representation…Small businesses are not being protected/represented but ARE paying big taxes.
Business is here to serve—all Americans. As an independent who is not afraid to speak out, we stand to say—protect small businesses—stop looting and burning us down. And now—stop the racist posting against people who are themselves not racist. Small businesses are the fabric of this country! Don’t destroy us.
Other restaurants are openly in support of BLM and are aiding protesters in Atlanta (click here to see what those eateries are doing).
133 Responses
And this is what happens when you use your business to make social, political, or religious commentary.
You run the possibility that your message gets misconstrued or the fact that some people just don’t agree/like your message, and then you’ve got to be constantly explaining yourself.
Then it gets in the media, and then everybody starts jacking-up your Yelp page.
They know exactly what they’re doing.
Welp, freedom of speech.
People have the right to say just about anything they want.
They should just remember that that right comes with responsibilities and possible consequences.
Everyone of her (the restaurant ow er’s) statements/responses were bullshit and further pushes the fact that America was always built (BY BLACKS mind you) for benefit of whites ALONE who always want to be protected by that same America regardless of what injustices are happening to minorities. That my friend is the privilege she so ignorantly fails to recognize. She is totally part of the PROBLEM and will feel the pain as we fight for a solution the same way it was done throughout the history of this perilous and racist country.
The problem with that is black lives are in the most danger from other blacks and that is rarely if never addressed by the movement. There are also a lot of Italian, Irish, German, Greek, and Jewish (from many different countries) immigrants who would disagree with your statement that Blacks built America. Once again just another in a long line of falsehoods that are spouted by a movement that tells us up is down and left is right. Look at the statistics and data it does NOT support what BLM claims.
White privilege is the cousin of white supremacy and is responsible for a lighter racism it fortified through indifference. People with umbrellas don’t know or care how cold and wet the rain makes those who aren’t covered!
Is there prejudice still in America? yes there always will be, we are not perfect as a nation. But continuing to hold a victim mentality is backfiring on the justice you seek. There is no white privilege, there is ‘earned privilege’. people have to do the work to get ahead, no exempting the SAT, no exempting final exams, no special treatment. A helping hand yes.
right, there’s no white privilege. My black boss is a 1%er yet he still has to give his kids “the talk” even though they live in white af Cobb county. Or how Sterling Brown (NBA player) makes millions and still get tased for improper racial profiling. Keep telling yourself there’s no white privilege
White privilege IS telling people who aren’t white there is NO privilege! I’m a white woman who sees my privilege everyday. I too didn’t WANT to see it! However, when a friend pointed a few things out to me I was willing to see it from their perspective and NOT try to defend what they were saying.
Sadly, most people listen to to defend not the HEAR! White privilege is the awful women in NY who attempted to call the cops on African American man because she was upset that he asked her to put her dog on a leash!
White privilege IS telling people who aren’t white there is NO privilege! I’m a white woman who sees my privilege everyday. I too didn’t WANT to see it! However, when a friend pointed a few things out to me I was willing to see it from their perspective and NOT try to defend what they were saying. Sadly, most people listen to to defend not the HEAR! White privilege is the awful women in NY who attempted to call the cops on African American man because she was upset that he asked her to put her dog on a leash!
The scandal that involved people paying to have their children be accepted in to Colleges and Universities…white privilege.
Need more examples???
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3581703125191460&set=pcb.3581704971857942&type=3&theater
The biggest danger to black people (men and women) in America isn’t white people, police, teachers, professors, bankers, or anything else. It’s other black people specifically black males aged 17-35 like the one who killed David Dorn. White people by far are more likely to be a victim of a violent crime or a murder by a black person than the reverse. White people are killed by police officers far more often than black people when you take into account the amount of violent crime and the amount of police interactions each respective group has. I used to be a sheep like you. I used to believe the false claims made by groups like BLM. Incidents like Ahmaud Arbery and George Floyd made me actually look at the statistics rather than listen to a shouting mob. What I found was shocking and wasn’t what I was being told. Its all a lie. The FBI crime statistics paint the real picture and it isn’t what BLM is telling us. I refuse to be a pawn and be fooled by false narratives. If you want to that is fine.
Well if your statics are correct! WHITE people should be just as outraged! However, you do understand that black people only make up 13% of the population. While you’re doing your research. I invite you to look at the 13th Amendment on Netflix.
That’s the problem. Only 13% of the population yet still commit more violent crime than the rest of Americans. Only 13% of the population yet still commit more violent crime and murder and come into contact with police more often than populations five times that. Did you fail statistics? I used to believe the false narrative until I managed to actually research the FBI and DOJ crime statistics myself. The sentiment may be controversial, but it is borne out by the facts. The murder rate is incredibly skewed with whites being killed by blacks at a extremely disproportional rate than the reverse. Maybe you should try that instead of watching Netflix?
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CBMIPVIii82/?igshid=1uidk2cq7g11n
Sometimes it takes me a little levity to help people who don’t understand…UNDERSTAND!
By the way! I enjoy my Netflix!
Ohmygosh, that was too funny!
RIGHT???
All they are asking for is to MATTER! People love to get hung up on semantics! Thank GOD black people are only asking for equality and NOT revenge. Damn shame WE are still having this discussion in 2020!
I don’t blame you for looking at statistics. I think what you’re failing to possibly see is that the system white people have built in this country without the voices of black people for centuries because black people have either been considered property or separate but equal, is that the system itself is rigged against them. Create ghettos, redline where they live so they can’t get loans or own property, seed the communities they live in with drugs and then incarcerate the males taking fathers out of the homes, and what do you think you’ve created? Rap is just a gospel of what black America has had to grow up in. The American system has devalued the black person for so long, we now are made to believe black people are a threat to society!!! This is systemic racism!! Come on. You’re falling for the white supremicist narrative! Watch “Just Mercy.” It’s free to rent on Amazon. That’s a true story that had a black man on death row for murdering a white woman, which never occurred. That’s the system suppressing the truth and the rights of black people! I will never patron OK Cafe! That lady cares more about her confederate flag and profligating its symbolism for slavery, than acknowledging that black lives are in danger at the hands of police that are supposed to protect. Let’s fix the system for everybody, and then maybe we won’t have to worry about people rioting in the streets! I hope for her sake this lady is really just as ignorant as she sounds and not what I think she is which is a bigoted racist hiding behind her purse.
its telling you want me to watch Amazon or Netflix than look at the actual data available to us. The FBI and DOJ statistics speak for themselves. That sentiment might be controversial but it is supported by the facts. Plenty of people have been falsely accused and on death row. That isn’t exclusive to black people. How about you open your eyes and look at the actual data we have and use that to fix the problem and not Amazon or Netflix documentaries that are poisonous to the narrative they promote? I agree let’s fix the system for everyone and not pander to specific groups based on lies and false narratives that do not exist.
What part of “systemic racism” did you not understand? Keep your knee on the neck of black people. Ignorance is bliss.
Systemic racism even if it is to be believed isn’t the answer for these incredibly skewed FBI and DOJ violent crime, Gun crime, and murder statistics. I know it might be hard for you to accept them heck it was hard for me at first after I realized I had been lied to and believed a completely false and flawed narrative since 2016 but although it might hurt and yes, it can be controversial those are the facts and we need to use them to get this fixed for all Americans not just a select few. The problem with that is black lives are in the most danger from other blacks and that is rarely if never addressed by the movement. It’s like shouting the house is on fire and trying to blame the other neighbors on the street when in fact most of the houses that are burning are set on fire by the people living in the house. Hope this clarifies it for you.
Mark, saying blacks are more at risk at the hands of black still fails to acknowledge why? Why are these stats the way they are? To not acknowledge the proverbial knee on the neck of black people by the systems set up in America, fails to acknowledge the disease. You’re only acknowledging the symptoms, and thus perpetuating the systemic racism by blaming the victim. It seems you’re smart enough to read charts and graphs, but you’ve failed to study history. That was the reason for us asking you to watch those DOCUMENTARIES. It’s history. Use your keen sense of deductive reasoning and consider how we are here today. If you continue to trust stats above what the US and local governments have done to exclude black people from the opportunities white people have enjoyed, then continue to rally with your OK Cafe comrades and fly your “ Lives That Matter Are Made With Positive Purpose“ flag with white pride in your heart.
No system out there is making black people kill other black people at high rates nor is it making or forcing black people to commit violent crimes or murder against other ethnic groups in America in extremely disproportionate numbers than the reverse. What groups like BLM are saying is a completely fraudulent and false narrative and I refuse to participate in such. There was a time when I was exactly like you but then I looked at the actual statistics and data regarding these issues and I was horrified because I was being lied to and manipulated by special interest groups and the media. The numbers do not support what we are being told about these issues. As a homosexual man who grew up in a rural area in another state who fled to Atlanta 38 years ago I am well aware of how life can be. I didn’t however make up a false and totally bunk narrative to excuse my plight or place blame for any failures I might have had (and I had several)
Black lives matter too.
You’ve gotta get arrested to show up in the crime stats, a huge point of the protests is that minorities are over-policed while others get off with warnings or lesser charges.
Focusing on the gross numbers ignores a lot of nuance. First off, it ignores the whole context of how we got here. But on a more basic level, it misses the literal point of the protests. This isn’t about white people killing black people. It’s about systemic racism in the police force and their excessive use of force. And yes, cops can be black. And their victims can be white (and BLM cares about white victims too).
If we wanted to focus on the biggest killers, we’d only ever talk about heart disease and car accidents, but this is about justice – not kill count.
Correct and studies, statistics, and data show that what BLM and other special interest groups along with the media who distribute this narrative are claiming is false. Its a lie. It doesn’t exist in the way that they say it does. Black people are not the greatest victims of excessive force by police it is actually white and Hispanics that are the victims.
Percentage of arrest-related deaths classified as Homicides (by race):
Whites: 69%
Hispanics: 67%
Blacks: 64%
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ardppsrsm.pdf
The death rate by cop for a black person is 0.00051%.
Here is maybe the most telling stat: A black person killed at the hands of another person… 6.98% chance that person is a cop… 82.3% chance that person is another black person. Whereas, for a white person killed… 11.36% chance that person is a cop… 71.1% chance that person is white.
The conclusion here from the linked statistics is that cops DO NOT disproportionately hunt and kill black people. If anything, as this exercise and the studies have shown, blacks are killed LESS than whites on a per-interaction basis.
If you want to be a pawn and continue to believe something that does not exist be my guest I was once one of those people until I looked at the statistics and data and realized I was being lied to. I won’t participate in such dishonesty but if you want to be lied to and manipulated be my guest.
I literally said this was about justice, not kill count and you typed out a whole wall of stats about death rates.
If you think minorities are treated fairly and equally by the cops, I’m not sure what world you’re living in. And if you don’t think policing in America involves way too much violence (against all ethnicity), same comment.
Then why are we focusing on the group that is literally not the most impacted by police violence? Why do you keep perpetuating a lie? Why not use the statistics we have to fix the actual problems not one that has been exposed over and over as being a fake and false narrative? That is the issue. Yes, we need to demilitarize the police and black people are not the victims of police violence or violent crime or murders by white people. The opposite is actually the case but in the crazy world of BLM and ANTIFA up is down left is right and light is dark. The statistics are why people are beginning to see the charade this actually is. It is based on a total and complete fabrication. Shouldn’t we work to end this lie and work to fix what the actual real data tells us? Wouldn’t that be the most effective path forward for everyone?
Mark let’s use this as a teachable moment. Please point us all in the direction of your FBI and DOJ statistics to you so fondly speak of. Please don’t respond with “YOU do the research.”
I gave you something helpful and useful to watch. Quid pro quo…
Sure Stacy B. hopefully you will accept these facts and be able to admit (sadly) like I did after looking at this that you have indeed been duped and conned by a false narrative.
https://scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/publications/empirical-analysis-racial-differences-police-use-force
https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2019/the-truth-behind-racial-disparities-in-fatal-police-shootings/
https://nursing.wsu.edu/2016/04/27/study-found-race-matters-police-shootings-results-may-surprise
Here is maybe the most telling stat: A black person killed at the hands of another person… 6.98% chance that person is a cop… 82.3% chance that person is another black person. Whereas, for a white person killed… 11.36% chance that person is a cop… 71.1% chance that person is white.
This is just the expanded homicide table 3 of the UCR statistics showing how many of each race murders every year. This is 2016 but you can find it yearly (2017,2018, etc) and the numbers are consistent. BTW, it is extremely hard to find the UCR statistics table and data it’s almost if certain people don’t want it to be seen for some reason.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3.xls
A report from the DOJ regarding arrest related deaths in the US by race:
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ardppsrsm.pdf
The white-on-black myth is exactly that. A false narrative promoted by BLM and related self-interests groups. Both Whites AND Hispanics (as a percentage) outpaced blacks as a result of homicides during arrests.
“Two-thirds of males for whom at least one incident form was completed died as a result of a homicide: 69% of white, 64% of black, 67% of Hispanic, and 78% of those age 24 or younger died as a result of a homicide”
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/interactive/2020/05/mapping-police-killings-black-americans-200531105741757.html
https://www.aclu.org/issues/racial-justice/five-truths-about-black-history
See how this works…
Yes I love my pictures!
im quoting your own reference from
https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/empirical_analysis_tables_figures.pdf
“A number of stylized facts emerge from the analysis of the preceding sections. On non-lethal uses of force, there are racial differences – sometimes quite large – in police use of force, even after controlling for a large set of controls designed to account for important contextual and behavioral factors at the time of the police-civilian interaction. As the intensity of use of force increases from putting hands on a civilian to striking them with a baton, the overall probability of such an incident occurring decreases but the racial difference remains roughly constant. On the most extreme uses of force, however – officer-involved shootings with a Taser or lethal weapon – there are no racial differences in either the raw data or when accounting for controls.”
so even if there’s an equal probability of a case escalating to higher intensity for both races, the overall numbers will still skew towards black because of a high disparity of occurrences of low level force used.
Anyways a lot of the paper talks about how it’s selective data and extremely difficult to even draw conclusions, since police departments make it difficult to gather data.
https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2019/the-truth-behind-racial-disparities-in-fatal-police-shootings/
second source, only refers to police shooting. Eric Garner didn’t get shot, George Floyd didn’t get shot, Freddie Gray didn’t get shot. Another study pinpointed at one specific category driving a specific narrative
And since you like posting pictures……
Sadly this graph does not address police brutality amongst African Americans. Which is the matter at hand!
The many links I posted did in fact address that. Do you accept or reject them?
https://openpolicing.stanford.edu/findings/
You sent me an MSU review here’s a Stanford review on policing.
Do you accept or reject what I have sent?
I posted 3 separate studies all from different sources that came to the same conclusion on policing. I posted DOJ statistics that came to the same conclusion on policing. None of them support the narrative BLM and other organizations are telling us. The violent crime statistics I posted also do not support what BLM is claiming. The biggest victims of violent crime in this country compared to the amount of crime they commit are white and Asians. The biggest victims of police violence in this country are whites and Latino/Hispanics. When does the protesting start?
Last one and then I need to sit with my family for movie night! Good night
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/police_mort_open.pdf
police are responding to 911 calls often made by blacks to violent crimes being committed. A violent confrontation often ensues and unfortunate incidents happen. Arrests are not pretty. When I am stopped by a police officer (and it has happened multiple times) I comply with the officer’s demands. I don’t resist, yell and scream. It is really not that hard.
You know what? You are scary and I am pretty sure you want to be. I might tell you though that not everyone is afraid of your cheap words. You may not win this fight of yours and more than likely will wind up doing great and irreversible damage to the cause you are hiding behind. Actually, you just disgust me. There is no need to reply to this as I will NOT converse with people who think the only allowed opinions are theirs.
Take a deep breath…
You’ll feel better.
Wow! Cheap words! Hmmm let’s see
disgusting and scary! I think those qualify! You light a match, start a fire then leave the room. What about civil discourse? Clearly, you’re not interested. As the teenagers say, BYE Felicia! Don’t cha just love that colloquialism!
It think it’s quite appropriate.
agreed, this movement has no tolerance for dissenting voices, they seek to dominate, unfortunately many people don’t have a spine to say enough is enough. This ‘movement’ is going to boomerang. People are sick of it
quit being a victim , I have no problem giving blacks a helping to take part in what America has to offer. You should check out a program called ‘YearUp’, a program that helps minorities move up to higher paying job and opportunities. We hired an individual from that program and his awesome. But continuing to cry racism at every turn is not working
She never addressed the “Lives that matter are made with positive purpose” poster directly.
coded racism hidden behind trite platitudes is still racism
Hello
What she was saying is property and things mean more than black people’s lives. No mention of George Floyd murdered I cold blood just business owners loosing “stuff”. I’m other words, Black Lives Don’t Matter.
black lives do matter as well as all lives, we all agree GF’s killing should not have happened, but when you commit crimes and resist arrest things get ugly. people should not put themselves in these situations, but when confronted by police, do what they tell you, it is really not that hard
Hi Karen.
Would you like to speak with the manager?
I’m still confused as to why the Georgia Flag with confederate emblem signifies her gaining her civil rights? What am I missing?
EXACTLY! That was FEDERAL law! All of her points that she attempted to make are regurgitated rhetoric. At the end of the day she should have said, “I DONT GIVE A F’CK!
Women’s suffrage in the United States of America, the legal right of women to vote, was established over the course of more than half a century, first in various states and localities, sometimes on a limited basis, and then nationally in 1920.
It was until 1965 that the “Voting Rights Act” where black women were allowed to vote. Her white privilege is run rampant in her response!
Even though the Nineteenth Amendment became federal law in 1920, Georgia women were barred from voting until 1922. The amendment wasn’t officially ratified and approved by the state legislature until 1970, so to try to spin a representation of one of the most retardataire states in the Union when it came to grudgingly allowing the civil rights the federal government recognized a half-century ago as a proud moment for anything is about as lame as you can get.
These messages don’t paint the owner as a flaming racist, but they do at the very least display a certain level of ignorance and insensitivity. The more objectionable pieces:
Pretending the Georgia flag had nothing to do with the confederate flag…
Incorrectly believing that the right to speak your mind also comes with the privilege of not being criticized for it…
Placing prosperity (yea, it’s great your business did well) over basic human rights of others…
Portraying an overwhelmingly peaceful protest movement as a barbaric wave of violence and rioting (I’d bet Atlantans spend more money on chicken sandwiches daily than it’ll cost to clean up the property damage from the riot)…
We don’t need to normalize looting, destruction of property, and assault, etc as a part of protesting.
I don’t think anyone is normalizing the looting. She painstakingly makes the argument about the loss of property and not the loss of LIFE.
And while we are on flags…let’s drop back through the history of the confederate flag and pop holes in that BS too. After The Civil War the confederate flag was basically forgotten about for ONE HUNDRED YEARS!!!! Do you know why all the sudden the flag reappeared ONE HUNDRED YEARS AFTER THE CIVIL WAR???? It was NOT apart of state flags or other official symbols or displays for almost 100 years! It was brought back during the 1950s-60s as a rebuke to the Civil Rights movement. It was never about appreciation for southern history it was brought back as a form of resistance to the Civil Rights Movement. It was a symbol of the desire for whites to maintain dominant position in the racial hierarchy of the United States. So when they wave it around…we know exactly what they are trying to say and so do you!
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
eRosewater is a he, and I’ve had plenty of discussions with him.
And I made no mention of a Confederate flag.
The she I am referring to is Susan. I
made mention of the Confederate Flag to give others who have or will comment a history lesson! So that when and IF they try to justify waving it they will know it’s origin. This is just civil discourse.
Well then maybe you replied to me in error, because I was speaking directly to eRosewater.
He seems to downplay the loss of property, destruction,
violence, and assault as an acceptable symptom of protest.
I think we can be horrified by the unacceptable loss of human life, and also be pissed off about the rioting.
Everybody thinks that insurance companies will take care of
personal/commercial property damages and losses (at current value). I have plenty of experience with insurance companies to know better.
And all those police cars that got torched– guess who’s paying for that? You and me.
I also know the history about how the Confederate flag has been used.
I agree that we can be both outraged at the loss of property and the loss of life. Property can be rebuilt. Sadly, someone that was MURDERED will never have that luxury. Her response does not address the later.
Two wrongs do not make a right.
I don’t think you understand the victimized small businessperson.
Some of this damage is going to be the last straw.
But hey, I’ve seen plenty of peaceful protests.
I do as I too am a business owner. Thankfully, I have GOOD insurance to cover the broken windows. One should never assume. As for violent vs. peaceful. I leave you with this!
Damned if you do! Damned if you don’t!
I’m with you. Looting isn’t acceptable. Rioting isn’t achieving anything. Perpetrators should face consequences. It’s not normal. It shouldn’t be normalized.
BUT
I have always argued that we need to bring nuance back to our discussions. Whether it’s lies being told by politicians or contextualizing the violence surrounding these protests, degree and severity matters. And the reality in this situation is that the significance of mass protests across the country vastly outweighs the (completely wrong and unacceptable) violence that accompanied them in the beginning.
agree with you that free speech can result in criticism from both sides, that is America, but your prosperity argument is flawed. The protests started out as total destruction and mayhem in Minnesota which now looks like a war zone. These tactics which were quickly copied in other cities. Mayor Bottoms and Chief Shields decided to take a chance the first Friday evening by letting the protest continue after dark, and we all know the result, millions of dollars in damage. Not until overwhelming force was brought in did the protests become peaceful. Many black owned businesses are left trying to pick up the pieces
I saw very little damage in a later protest. I also disagree that it was overwhelming force that stopped the violence. There were protest leaders on megaphones telling people to obey the curfew and to stick to the right streets/areas. Looting and violence plays into the hands of those that oppose the protests, protesters took decisive action to prevent it.
https://www.facebook.com/1579149368/posts/10219434097434654/?d=n
Even NASCAR gets it!
I totally understand the Co-owners perspective. What I dont understand is her assumption and insinuation that black lives matters should pay for businesses that are being destroyed. When white kids shoot up schools, when white men shoot up businesses, there is no outcry for anyone to pay for the damages. To be clear – do not agree with the looting and rioting. To be clear there are white looters and agitators. Want proof? To be clear that there are people that are protesting that are not a part of black lives matter; there are people (black, white, Asian, gay, straight, soccer moms, business owners etc..who recognize the years and years of systemic discrimination in this country that have joined the protests. To single out BLM is apart of the issue – focus on who you think should be blamed….
I understand the Co-owners perspective. What I dont understand is her assumption and insinuation that black lives matters should pay for businesses that are being destroyed. When white kids shoot up schools, when white men should have businesses, there is no outcry for anyone to pay for the damages. To be clear – do not agree with the looting and rioting. To be clear there are white looters and agitators. Want proof? To be clear that there are people that are protesting that are not a part of black lives matter; there are people (black, white, Asian, gay, straight, soccer moms, business owners etc..who recognize the years and years of systemic discrimination in this country that have joined the protests. To single out BLM is apart of the issue – focus on who you think should be blamed….
First of all, this is just crappy reporting. It’s crappy for someone to have a private email exchange with someone and then share it with media outlets. Kind of like entrapment. But again, crappy reporting to play into that by making this public.
Black lives matter has become a witch hunt. Everyone who doesn’t outwardly support it is labeled a racist. Anyone who doesn’t buy into the false narrative of police brutality and racism is racist. Pointing out legitimate stats that clearly disprove the notion of systematic racism is racist. Taking issue with aimless looting and violence and vandalism is racist. And then there’s “white privilege” and “microaggressions”, whatever that means.
The facts show there is not systematic racism in the police force. The facts show black people commit a highly disproportionate amount of violent and nonviolent crime. The reasons are largely socioeconomic – they have less wealth and less access to education and opportunity. We need to address that root cause through many forms of public policy.
Promoting a false narrative of systematic police racism will not solve the root issues.
Ummmm she was informed that it would be posted and continued to engage in the conversation. I guess all the people across the world are just not getting your point of view.
DeRose and Richardson gave us explicit permission to post their emails/statements. ~ CJS
It’s a copy paste of an email chain. Just doesn’t seem newsworthy.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-of-systemic-police-racism-11591119883
This is an opinion piece.
This is not crappy reporting.
The email exchange was sent to many media outlets.
It’s a journalists job to follow, and dig deeper.
I’ll tell you what … you look around the country (Minneapolis, LA, Denver, New York, Atlanta and a few other cities), and you see the mobs of protesters … AND A LOT OF THOSE FACES ARE WHITE(!) … so one of the bright spots in the wake of this atrocity is a very visible temperature check that reveals how racism, as a generational thing, seems to be attenuating in the herd of young foals galloping out of White America … because these young and rebellious white kids are doing the James Brown out there in the streets! (Along with the black and other-colored ones.)
The issue the older generations of white folks don’t seem to understand is the fact that, as angry as these kids are about seeing the horrific murder of George Floyd, what they simultaneously reinterpret in their minds is DaBaby, 21 Savage and Lil Uzi Vert being murdered!!
And they ain’t having that!
The fact that you don’t know who any of those people are accounts for why you can’t understand what those kids are out there protesting with all the rage they can generate. Because hip hop appears to flow more potently in the veins of young white Americans than the hate many of their forebears have injected them with unfailingly since birth.
Kids have watched a dramatic video and are reacting based on emotion, not facts. All this energy directed towards this myth of systematic racism by police will improve nothing.
War and rioting have immediately preceded this country’s major civil rights acts and affirmative action. I guess that didn’t improve anything.
In the words of my Southern Grand Ma! Bless your heart! #dramticvideo
So what has protesting accomplished?
Within 10 days of sustained protests:
Minneapolis bans use of choke holds.
Charges are upgraded against Officer Chauvin, and his accomplices are arrested and charged.
Dallas adopts a “duty to intervene” rule that requires officers to stop other cops who are engaging in inappropriate use of force.
New Jersey’s attorney general said the state will update its use-of-force guidelines for the first time in two decades.
In Maryland, a bipartisan work group of state lawmakers announced a police reform work group.
Los Angeles City Council introduces motion to reduce LAPD’s $1.8 billion operating budget.
MBTA in Boston agrees to stop using public buses to transport police officers to protests.
Police brutality captured on cameras leads to near-immediate suspensions and firings of officers in several cities (i.e., Buffalo, Ft. Lauderdale).
Monuments celebrating confederates are removed in cities in Virginia, Alabama, and other states.
Street in front of the White House is renamed “Black Lives Matter Plaza.”
Military forces begin to withdraw from D.C.
Then, there’s all the other stuff that’s hard to measure:
The really difficult public and private conversations that are happening about race and privilege.
The realizations some white people are coming to about racism and the role of policing in this country.
The self-reflection.
The internal battles exploding within organizations over issues that have been simmering or ignored for a long time. Some organizations will end as a result, others will be forever changed or replaced with something stronger and fairer.
Globally:
Protests against racial inequality sparked by the police killing of George Floyd are taking place all over the world.
Rallies and memorials have been held in cities across Europe, as well as in Mexico, Canada, Brazil, Australia, and New Zealand.
As the US contends with its second week of protests, issues of racism, police brutality, and oppression have been brought to light across the globe.
People all over the world understand that their own fights for human rights, for equality and fairness, will become so much more difficult to win if we are going to lose America as the place where ‘I have a dream’ is a real and universal political program,” Wolfgang Ischinger, a former German ambassador to the US, told the New Yorker.
In France, protesters marched holding signs that said “I can’t breathe” to signify both the words of Floyd, and the last words of Adama Traoré, a 24-year-old black man who was subdued by police officers and gasped the sentence before he died outside Paris in 2016.
Cities across Europe have come together after the death of George Floyd:
✊ In Amsterdam, an estimated 10,000 people filled the Dam square on Monday, holding signs and shouting popular chants like “Black lives matter,” and “No justice, no peace.”
✊ In Germany, people gathered in multiple locations throughout Berlin to demand justice for Floyd and fight against police brutality.
✊ A mural dedicated to Floyd was also spray-painted on a stretch of wall in Berlin that once divided the German capital during the Cold War.
✊ In Ireland, protesters held a peaceful demonstration outside of Belfast City Hall, and others gathered outside of the US embassy in Dublin.
✊In Italy, protesters gathered and marched with signs that said “Stop killing black people,” “Say his name,” and “We will not be silent.”
✊ In Spain, people gathered to march and hold up signs throughout Barcelona and Madrid.
✊ In Athens, Greece, protesters took to the streets to collectively hold up a sign that read “I can’t breathe.”
✊ In Brussels, protesters were seen sitting in a peaceful demonstration in front of an opera house in the center of the city.
✊In Denmark, protesters were heard chanting “No justice, no peace!” throughout the streets of Copenhagen, while others gathered outside the US embassy.
✊ In Canada, protesters were also grieving for Regis Korchinski-Paquet, a 29-year-old black woman who died on Wednesday after falling from her balcony during a police investigation at her building.
✊ And in New Zealand, roughly 2,000 people marched to the US embassy in Auckland, chanting and carrying signs demanding justice.
Memorials have been built for Floyd around the world, too. In Mexico City, portraits of him were hung outside the US embassy with roses, candles, and signs.
In Poland, candles and flowers were laid out next to photos of Floyd outside the US consulate.
And in Syria, two artists created a mural depicting Floyd in the northwestern town of Binnish, “on a wall destroyed by military planes.”
Before the assassination of George Floyd some of you were able to say whatever the hell you wanted and the world didn’t say anything to you…
THERE HAS BEEN A SHIFT, AN AWAKENING…MANY OF YOU ARE BEING EXPOSED FOR WHO YOU REALLY ARE. #readthatagain
Don’t wake up tomorrow on the wrong side of this issue. Its not too late to SAY,
“maybe I need to look at this from a different perspective.
Maybe I don’t know what its like to be Black in America…
Maybe, just maybe, I have been taught wrong.”
There is still so much work to be done. It’s been a really dark, raw week. This could still end badly. But all we can do is keep doing the work.
Keep protesting.
WE ARE NOT TRYING TO START A RACE WAR; WE ARE PROTESTING TO END IT,
PEACEFULLY.
How beautiful is that?
ALL LIVES CANNOT MATTER UNTIL YOU INCLUDE BLACK LIVES.
YOU CANNOT SAY ‘ALL LIVES MATTER’ WHEN YOU DO NOTHING TO STOP SYSTEMIC RACISM & POLICE BRUTALITY.
YOU CANNOT SAY ‘ALL LIVES MATTER’ WHEN BLACK PEOPLE ARE DYING AND ALL YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT IS THE LOOTING.
YOU CANNOT SAY ‘ALL LIVES MATTER’ WHEN YOU ALLOW CHILDREN TO BE CAGED, VETERANS TO GO HOMELESS, AND POOR FAMILIES TO GO HUNGRY & LOSE THEIR HEALTH INSURANCE.
DO ALL LIVES MATTER? YES. BUT RIGHT NOW, ONLY BLACK LIVES ARE BEING TARGETED, JAILED, AND KILLED EN MASSE- SO THAT’S WHO WE’RE FOCUSING ON.
BLACK LIVES MATTER
IF YOU CAN’T SEE THIS, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.
The protests have generated some positive change in policing. Things that need to be done , and more work is needed. However, My problem with BLM is that it is not about equality, it’s a dangerous political movement bent on control, silence of dissenters, erasing cultural references, socialism and Marxism. The true meaning is being drowned out. You can follow the money. Now the word racism is thrown around so much it doesn’t mean anything. We all know what racism looks like, and there’s no place for it. But trying to silence opposing views with extortion , threats, is a non starter. Tearing down statues, cancelling Gone with the Wind, and many other things is ridiculous. BLM is not practicing democracy, it aims to silence dissenting voices. People are waking and will fight this movement.
DaMo,
I’m not trying to convince you be less of the problem, but, how do you know police brutality and systematic racism against Black people are false? I know both liberal and conservative Black people and not one has said these issues don’t exist. Some just pivot to “Black on Black crime,” which they all agree needs to be addressed. History shows that the U.S. has done everything possible to create all the issues, especially those issues associated with poverty, that Black people are experiencing in this country. You should read about this.
If 10/10 people told you a building was on fire and not to enter, would you still go in? Or would you wait outside with these 10 people, ask what happened, and see how you can help?
I hope one day you’ll listen to people who are saying they’re hurting, instead of insisting they’re not. If you’re not a POC, you gotta listen. Real listening, not just thinking about rebuttals. We can all do better.
It isn’t that police brutality doesn’t exist or happen to black people. The issue is it doesn’t happen to the level that some groups want you to believe it does and the truth is there are actually two other groups of Americans out there that are the victims of police brutality at a higher rate (percentage) yet it is ignored and shouted down. That is the issue. Same with interracial crime statistics. They are grossly disproportionate but you would never know it unless you looked yourself at the numbers. I don’t know about you but I don’t like being mislead or lied to. That is what our media and BLM are doing and in the process anyone who presents the real data is shouted down, called racist, or becomes a victim of cancel culture. Why not just try and stop the charade and fix the problems from within instead of blaming false narratives? I am willing to say black lives matter too. Are you willing to say the same for these other groups that are the victims of police brutality and interracial violent crime in higher numbers than the reverse?
Why does it matter how often it happens or who it happens to more? It shouldn’t happen at all. No police officer in this country should kill a person who doesn’t present an immediate danger to their life. Pointing out “WhO geTs KilLed the moSt” seems like your attempt to discredit their complaints. Nonetheless, I think the BLM movement encompasses all POC. I’ve never seen a BLM supporter suggest that the U.S. should forget the struggles of other POC.
And maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t remember seeing videos over and over again of other innocent (non-Black) people being killed by the police. Mark, they are calling you racist because you’re so hyped up by showing them “data” that contradicts their own life experiences. You don’t know what you don’t know. Police brutality is just one challenge POC, specifically Black people, face in this country. Maybe one day you’ll accept that and listen. Maybe you’ll learn not to be a racist, instead of being offended by it.
You asked why not try and stop the charade and fix problems from within instead of blaming false narratives? That’s not a question, it’s a statement disguised as a question. However, based on LISTENING to POC, it’s hard to fix a system from the inside without dismantling that system first. Perhaps you should consider how you can use your energy helping POC dismantle the system so we can all work to build something more just. The problem with dismantling that system is people like you. Be better.
Black lives matter. I don’t think they matter more than any other life, but they do matter. I think that’s the point.
That’s just the point and the problem. The statistics tell us it just isn’t black people and not only that but black people are not being killed by police at a higher rate. Its a false narrative. A lie. You are correct that when a white person is killed by police or a black person it isn’t news. Nobody cares. Same goes for Latinos and Asians. The statistics tell us black people do not face police killings at a higher rate than anyone else yet you would never know that if you buy into the lies by groups like BLM which sadly it seems you have. There are videos of white people like Tony Timpa being executed by police but it gets very little if no coverage because it doesn’t fit into the false narrative. The way in which he was killed was very similar to George Floyd. There were no protests, no riots, no looting, and the police were not immediately charged. Why? Look into it for yourself. Same for Daniel Shaver. There are countless others that never make the news. You yourself said you couldn’t remember seeing this and you are right because it isn’t deemed newsworthy.
White or Asian people can’t solve the disproportionate amount of black on black crime. They can’t solve the issue of out of wedlock births or the low education numbers. That is something black people are going to have to do. Just like black people can’t solve nor are they responsible for certain issues in the white community. The main system that needs to be dismantled is black crime not just against each other but everyone else as well being extremely more disproportionate than the reverse. That is going to have to be done by black people and nobody else. Black lives matter too.
In terms of the notion of police racism… No, I’m not just going to agree that all police are systematically racist because people say they are. I look at the stats and studies which indicate they are not (see the WSJ article I posted above). And by the way, making blanket statements about all police is a form of bias and stereotyping.
So I take issue with all the “F the police”, rioting, violence towards police. I think police are generally individuals who are committed to a life of service and making the world a better place – all while risking their lives and getting paid very little.
I think the real issue is poverty – POC are poorer. It leads to more crime and less opportunity, a self perpetuating cycle (prison policy doesn’t help). POC are poorer because of history and less opportunity, not capability. This is the problem we need to solve via more active public policy. Police brutality and racism are not a problem and are not the problem. Hating and blaming police will not solve anything.
That’s kinda missing the point of systemic racism. If the system (laws, policies, procedure, culture, etc.) has racial bias, individual officers may or may not be racist but the result is the same. That means even a majority-minority police force can have issues because, again, it’s systemic – not based on the individuals involved.
agree 100%, also the new slogan ‘white silence = white racism’ – now we are all racist if we are white and we have to prove otherwise. People should focus on the family unit, where are the parents of these people? How about education, are your kids doing the work expected? Where are their morals, weren’t they taught right and wrong?
Locked up for minor drug offenses. Offenses that are rarely enforced in more affluent areas.
Yes, but their school is failing because they were defunded and people of means just send their kids to the private school down the street where all the good teachers went to earn a decent salary and not have to pay for their own supplies.
You are aware that Atlanta Public Schools teachers have far higher average pay than their collegues in Gwinnett, Cobb, and North Fulton? All of which are far better school systems. Your point is false.
They also have higher cost of living, but that’s besides the point. The real question is whether any of those systems have pay and benefits on par with Atlanta International School, Holy Innocents, Lovett, Pace, Trinity, Westminster, or the other couple dozen private schools across the metro area?
Our public schools are an international embarrassment and our private schools are world-beaters. It’s not hard to understand how that happened or who it benefits.
So all APS teachers live in the city? Is that what you are saying? How would an APS teacher living in Gwinnett or Cobb have a higher cost of living than a Gwinnett teacher living in Cobb or North Fulton? Not sure if you are aware of this but Private schools don’t typically pay any higher for educators than their public counterparts. Administrators and Counselors? Sure the pay can be higher. Our public schools are an embarrassment because they are full of kids with parents who don’t care about or value education where in private schools that typically isn’t the case. Not to mention the protections and pensions that public educators have that private ones typically do not. Its clear why the private schools are better they are full of kids whose parents value education.
Violent protest vs. Peaceful protest! #dead
https://www.instagram.com/p/CA4A7Kkg3U4/?igshid=nb5x4ylyq8pj
Bless her little mint juleped heart, Ms. DeRose clearly has NO clue what she’s talking about, despite having very clear opinions about it.
* People are being murdered by law enforcement every day in this country, but what matters to her is that she saw some stores being looted on Fox News.
* She thinks that looters and violent people are “being allowed” by the BLM movement, as if they can somehow control thousands or tens of thousands of protesters. This despite the fact that BLM does NOT condone violence.
* She claims that “mean” people are now “trying to destroy her.” So… really, SHE’s the victim here, the poor dear.
* She says “many people are saying” (oh yes, that favorite Fox/Trump catchphrase that allows spinning out any kind of BS nonsense as if it were fact) her business is in danger. Oh lawdy! Da white lady gon’ rile up da Angry Black Man jus’ fer speakin’ her mind!
* With just an astonishing degree of tonedeafness, Ms. DeRose thinks the real problem is that she and her fellow business-owners are victims of “taxation without representation/protection.” Perhaps she’d like to look at what passes for “protection” these days, including cops across the country pepper-spraying innocent protesters, attacking medics wearing medical uniforms providing aid, slashing tires of journalists, and even knife-stabbing all the bottled water being handed out to marchers. Some of these actions would be WAR CRIMES if this were a war.
* Ms.DeRose claims to stand for “positive purpose and responsible capitalism,” then adds a Trumpy anti-journalist taunt, “I suppose you have an opposing opinion,” simply because What Now contacted her about this matter. Mind you, in her multiple pages of “I’m not a racist; I hire black people to sling my food!” she never mentions a single act of “responsible capitalism” other than offering “free tea and lemonade” for her anti-taxation Tempest in a TeaParking Lot rebellion. Let them eat cake (but only if they pay for it). Let’s see what she’s done for black Atlanta, other than exploit underpaid workers. What charitable work has she done for the people she claims to be helping?
* Utterly inexplicably, Ms. DeRose claims she displays the Georgia ‘Confederate Battle’ flag because she is “a female who got my civil rights when that flag flew over the state capitol.” Uh, WHAT?!?! I mean, if there’s one thing the 60s are remembered for, it’s how badly white women were treated in the South.
* She goes on to say she won’t be “bullied” into “obeying” people who are offended by it (again, somehow SHE is the victim here), like people were “75 years ago, but the US fought against them and won.” This one takes the cake. The people asking her not to display a flag that was adopted by Georgia IN VERY SPECIFIC REACTION AGAINST THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT are fascists/Nazis violating HER civil rights. Wow… you have to hand it to this woman, she’s good.
* Really, I think it’s time for her Echoes of Ayn Rand “Liberty House” Restaurant Corp to learn how capitalism works, via a good old fashioned lunch counter sit-in…. because that’s exactly the Good Ole Boy South that every inch of her campy decor celebrates..
BLM is a dangerous political movement with the goal of control, special privileges, silence dissenters (anybody that disagrees is a racist), socialism, and Marxism, you can read it. Don’t be fooled, the worthy goal of equality is just a cover for the real purpose of this movement. Think about it, we all know what real racism is , and it is sickening and there no place for it., I can’t believe it lasted into the 60’s. But we are a great country and made tremendous progress, and we need to snuff out all vestiges of racism, but the BLM has devolved into something completely different, don’t be fooled ,this is a dangerous group that won’t stop no matter how much money give them. The BLM is not about equality, it’s about REVENGE, don’t be fooled.
https://twitter.com/tia_ewing/status/1266959468811694080?s=21
Challenge your assumptions. Aholes, addicts, serial/spree killers, wife/child murderers, pedophiles, single mothers, abusive fathers, welfare/(bailout) recipients, looters – come in all colors. Google. Don’t give me the more blacks do this thing – white america is 10x the number of blacks – they will never be “more than” any number than white Americans – ever. And if you say different you are delusional and weak-minded and can’t handle the truth. Or, need to feel superior to someone and as such are part of the problem.
Fact is – No group is an absolute – all absolutely perfect, all absolutely beautiful, thin, rich, educated, Drug/crime free, perfect parents, perfect children, All races have people with issues. Period.
So let’s sum up the argument by this business owner, justifying her display of the anti-integration 1950s Georgia flag: “That was the flag when I was born, but I’m not a racist.” Okay, fair enough. But let’s say she was French, born in occupied Paris during WWII, and the only flag displayed in her French restaurant was the Nazi flag that flew when she was a child. Would that make her an anti-Semite? Not necessarily. It just makes her rude, selfish and callous to the suffering of others. It also makes her an ****extraordinarily bad hostess**** in a hospitality industry. But she paid good money for it, so… feelings be damned. I know I’ll never spend money there again, having read her “oh poor me, so tragically misunderstood” self-pity-party email.
75 comments! Now we’re talking!
Curbed Atlanta is reborn
The owner thinks that employing minorities makes her not a racist. If someone finds something you display (Georgia Confederate Flag) offensive the polite answer is to apologize and hopefully take it down. This owners responses to racial concerns continue to be tone deaf. The issue is that people don’t realize what is racist and the irony is the Boston Tea Party was in FACT an act of vandalism and looting.
good for you Ms DeRose, we must not be silenced by those that cant stand dissenting views, and that is what this is about, shutting people down because they can’t tolerate people that will not bow. More people should speak out,
good for Ms DeRose, dont be intimidated by a small but loud group that continue to call America inherently racist because it is not. Do not be silenced or bullied by the twitter mob. Your fortitude is refreshing to many others who believe like you but are afraid to say anything
So what has protesting accomplished?
Within 10 days of sustained protests:
Minneapolis bans use of choke holds.
Charges are upgraded against Officer Chauvin, and his accomplices are arrested and charged.
Dallas adopts a “duty to intervene” rule that requires officers to stop other cops who are engaging in inappropriate use of force.
New Jersey’s attorney general said the state will update its use-of-force guidelines for the first time in two decades.
In Maryland, a bipartisan work group of state lawmakers announced a police reform work group.
Los Angeles City Council introduces motion to reduce LAPD’s $1.8 billion operating budget.
MBTA in Boston agrees to stop using public buses to transport police officers to protests.
Police brutality captured on cameras leads to near-immediate suspensions and firings of officers in several cities (i.e., Buffalo, Ft. Lauderdale).
Monuments celebrating confederates are removed in cities in Virginia, Alabama, and other states.
Street in front of the White House is renamed “Black Lives Matter Plaza.”
Military forces begin to withdraw from D.C.
Then, there’s all the other stuff that’s hard to measure:
The really difficult public and private conversations that are happening about race and privilege.
The realizations some white people are coming to about racism and the role of policing in this country.
The self-reflection.
The internal battles exploding within organizations over issues that have been simmering or ignored for a long time. Some organizations will end as a result, others will be forever changed or replaced with something stronger and fairer.
Globally:
Protests against racial inequality sparked by the police killing of George Floyd are taking place all over the world.
Rallies and memorials have been held in cities across Europe, as well as in Mexico, Canada, Brazil, Australia, and New Zealand.
As the US contends with its second week of protests, issues of racism, police brutality, and oppression have been brought to light across the globe.
People all over the world understand that their own fights for human rights, for equality and fairness, will become so much more difficult to win if we are going to lose America as the place where ‘I have a dream’ is a real and universal political program,” Wolfgang Ischinger, a former German ambassador to the US, told the New Yorker.
In France, protesters marched holding signs that said “I can’t breathe” to signify both the words of Floyd, and the last words of Adama Traoré, a 24-year-old black man who was subdued by police officers and gasped the sentence before he died outside Paris in 2016.
Cities across Europe have come together after the death of George Floyd:
✊ In Amsterdam, an estimated 10,000 people filled the Dam square on Monday, holding signs and shouting popular chants like “Black lives matter,” and “No justice, no peace.”
✊ In Germany, people gathered in multiple locations throughout Berlin to demand justice for Floyd and fight against police brutality.
✊ A mural dedicated to Floyd was also spray-painted on a stretch of wall in Berlin that once divided the German capital during the Cold War.
✊ In Ireland, protesters held a peaceful demonstration outside of Belfast City Hall, and others gathered outside of the US embassy in Dublin.
✊In Italy, protesters gathered and marched with signs that said “Stop killing black people,” “Say his name,” and “We will not be silent.”
✊ In Spain, people gathered to march and hold up signs throughout Barcelona and Madrid.
✊ In Athens, Greece, protesters took to the streets to collectively hold up a sign that read “I can’t breathe.”
✊ In Brussels, protesters were seen sitting in a peaceful demonstration in front of an opera house in the center of the city.
✊In Denmark, protesters were heard chanting “No justice, no peace!” throughout the streets of Copenhagen, while others gathered outside the US embassy.
✊ In Canada, protesters were also grieving for Regis Korchinski-Paquet, a 29-year-old black woman who died on Wednesday after falling from her balcony during a police investigation at her building.
✊ And in New Zealand, roughly 2,000 people marched to the US embassy in Auckland, chanting and carrying signs demanding justice.
Memorials have been built for Floyd around the world, too. In Mexico City, portraits of him were hung outside the US embassy with roses, candles, and signs.
In Poland, candles and flowers were laid out next to photos of Floyd outside the US consulate.
And in Syria, two artists created a mural depicting Floyd in the northwestern town of Binnish, “on a wall destroyed by military planes.”
Before the assassination of George Floyd some of you were able to say whatever the hell you wanted and the world didn’t say anything to you…
THERE HAS BEEN A SHIFT, AN AWAKENING…MANY OF YOU ARE BEING EXPOSED FOR WHO YOU REALLY ARE. #readthatagain
Don’t wake up tomorrow on the wrong side of this issue. Its not too late to SAY,
“maybe I need to look at this from a different perspective.
Maybe I don’t know what its like to be Black in America…
Maybe, just maybe, I have been taught wrong.”
There is still so much work to be done. It’s been a really dark, raw week. This could still end badly. But all we can do is keep doing the work.
Keep protesting.
WE ARE NOT TRYING TO START A RACE WAR; WE ARE PROTESTING TO END IT,
PEACEFULLY.
How beautiful is that?
ALL LIVES CANNOT MATTER UNTIL YOU INCLUDE BLACK LIVES.
YOU CANNOT SAY ‘ALL LIVES MATTER’ WHEN YOU DO NOTHING TO STOP SYSTEMIC RACISM & POLICE BRUTALITY.
YOU CANNOT SAY ‘ALL LIVES MATTER’ WHEN BLACK PEOPLE ARE DYING AND ALL YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT IS THE LOOTING.
YOU CANNOT SAY ‘ALL LIVES MATTER’ WHEN YOU ALLOW CHILDREN TO BE CAGED, VETERANS TO GO HOMELESS, AND POOR FAMILIES TO GO HUNGRY & LOSE THEIR HEALTH INSURANCE.
DO ALL LIVES MATTER? YES. BUT RIGHT NOW, ONLY BLACK LIVES ARE BEING TARGETED, JAILED, AND KILLED EN MASSE- SO THAT’S WHO WE’RE FOCUSING ON.
BLACK LIVES MATTER
IF YOU CAN’T SEE THIS, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.
The actual statistics and data do not support this. At all. Black people commit the most violent crime in America by a significant margin so of course there are going to be interactions with police and black people being jailed.
Here is the actual problem that is being ignored en masse by organizations like BLM:
Mr Mark you have flooded this comment section with your crime statistics, but have not provided anything in the way of context or critical analysis. Where are the socio-economic stats that are part and parcel to crime? What do you suppose is the reason for these trends? Are black people simply naturally predisposed towards poverty and criminality? Or might it have something to do with a culture torn violently from its roots and subjected to centuries of slavery, followed by oppression and marginalization in the forms of segregation, redlining, “urban renewal”, discriminatory policing, mass incarceration under dysfunctional “tough on crime” policies, inequitable access to social services, and general overt- and covert discrimination at the hands of the dominant culture? Evidence for all of this abounds, but you ignore it in favor of a narrow view that fails to see the big picture.
Asking a group to simply stop committing a huge disproportionate amount of violent crime is not failing to see the big picture. The opposite would be failing to see the big picture. These interactions with police could be greatly reduced if one group would simply stop committing crimes. Being oppressed at some point in history isn’t a license to commit huge amounts of violent crime not only against yourself but everyone else than the reverse. If we want to follow and agree with your logic people of the Jewish faith would have carte blanche to go on violent crime sprees for perpetuity. There isn’t a peoples on planet earth that haven’t faced hardships. That isn’t an excuse to commit crimes in hugely disproportionate numbers. Nor is pointing out these statistics and data ‘racist’ or ‘racism’. The biggest problem facing black people in America is black violent crime. It needs to stop but BLM and other organizations won’t even acknowledge it.
What makes you think that it is a “simple” matter? It is really quite complex. What circumstances would cause a relatively small demographic to commit a disproportionate amount of crime? Is it inherent to their nature? If we really believe that all men are created equal (i.e. we aren’t racist), then this is not a reasonable conclusion. We need to dig deeper.
Your quantitative data is useful for developing a naively black and white narrative (no pun intended). If you want a more nuanced and accurate understanding of the matter though, you need to look at qualitative relationships – reasons and influences.
Have you ever taken the effort to imagine deeply what it is like to come up in a community where diseases of despair are rampant, good influences and role models are often outweighed by toxic ones, and the authorities who are supposed to provide safety and security are more likely than not to treat you with harshness and suspicion? It leads to vicious cycles of dysfunction, where educational, social, and economic achievement is an uphill battle with ankle weights on.
And what are the root causes of these circumstances? In my view, it is exactly the the policy and social conditions that I listed in my previous post. Intergenerational trauma is a real phenomenon. So are the social ramifications of the dissolution of family and community cohesion by unjust government policies.
Naturally, plenty of people do overcome adversity and buck the broad demographic trends. Individual agency and responsibility for one’s actions is a great philosophy for each and every one of us to live our lives by. However, it is an inadequate lens for understanding large-scale social dynamics.
I maintain that you are entrenched in a biased view that fails to understand the valid perspectives of people who have had vastly different life experiences than your own. I don’t think you are a racist though – just that you have an overly simplistic understanding of cause and effect, and an unfortunate lack of empathy. You need to take a more holistic view, man. Get to the root of the problem – the violent crime is just a symptom.
The solution is simple. Stop committing crimes and more specifically stop committing violent crimes. That doesn’t require any nuance. My grandmother is a Holocaust Survivor. Don’t lecture me on not being able to understand anything or having no empathy or understanding cause and effect. Jewish people aren’t out murdering people or claiming they can’t get a job or get into college because of the Holocaust. It’s ridiculous logic to even suggest such for any group. Nobody can solve the issue of disproportionate violent crimes committed by black people but the actual black people themselves. Stop blaming everyone on planet earth for you failures and take action. Black crime is the institution that needs to stop. Period.
So you are completely unwilling to consider that social dysfunction has underlying causes? It must be liberating to have such a simplistic view of the world. I would suggest that African Americans have had (and still have) a qualitatively different experience than other marginalized groups, but what’s the point when you are allergic to nuance?
There isn’t a populaiton on planet earth that hasn’t experienced social dysfunction. That’s what you can’t understand. Black people were not the first peoples to be enslaved. They were not the first people to suffer oppression. The difference here is other groups did not take the victimization route and just put their heads down and overcame these grave injustices. You don’t see Jewish people claiming everyone is against them and therefore they can’t be productive members of world society and get an education and jobs because of the Holocaust. No. They worked to bring themselves back up for the doorstep of certain death. They aren’t out killing each other and everyone else at disproportional rates. They aren’t out committing an extreme amount of violent crime at disproportional rates. They don’t blame anyone for their failures past or present. Stop with the victimization act especially when you are committing violent crimes not only against yourself but everyone else. Enough is enough.
Don’t act like I said nobody else has experienced social dysfunction. Straw man, much? My argument is that the nature of the social dysfunctions that plague black communities to this day has particular characteristics attributable to their unique underlying causes. African Americans have been subjected to a degree of cultural oppression over the course of their history on this continent that is unparalleled by any other American ethnic group (except for Native Americans, who have had a really terrible time of it as well).
I am impressed by the resiliency of the Jewish people in the face of oppression. Jewish communities have rebounded from harsh discrimination many times, in many countries. But why are you making this into a pissing contest? The context of anti-semitism is different from the racist oppression suffered by African Americans. We can explore the differences, if you would like:
Jews had certain advantages in this country that African Americans did not. For example, when they fled a horrible but comparatively short period of Nazi oppression in Europe, they were largely welcomed here. Jews may have been discriminated against for their ways, but not for their skin color, which is a big advantage when it comes to integrating with the dominant culture of white America. They certainly never had to fight deeply entrenched racism for the simple right to be recognized as a full citizens of this country. Anti-semitism in the US has always been less pronounced than the deeply embedded racism against blacks that has been the cultural norm until just a few generations ago. That’s not to downplay the seriousness of anti-semitism, which is abhorrent and never justified.
Jews were also able to retain their deep-rooted religious tradition that gives them grounded cultural coherence. This is enormously important! For the Jews that I know personally, their cultural identity is a source of strength and solidarity that I see mirrored in the black identity movements. One significant difference, though, is that the Africans who were kidnapped and brought to this continent had their culture violently purged from them over centuries of slavery. There have been various movements by African Americans to re-connect with their ancestral roots and I think they are stronger for it, but much has been lost.
My point is, comparing the Jewish American experience to the African American one is apples to oranges.
Things have gotten progressively better for black people in this country, especially since the 60’s (which is not “an infinity ago”, as you claim in your moronic post below in this thread). For you to deny that there are still serious issues of inequity is simply ignorant and obtuse.
If we claim that the criminal justice system is white-supremacist, why is it that Asian Americans, Indian Americans, and Nigerian Americans are incarcerated at vastly lower rates than white Americans? This is a funny sort of white supremacy. Even Jewish Americans are incarcerated less than gentile whites. I think it’s fair to say that your average white supremacist disapproves of Jews.
1. It’s clear the business owner is a crazy old white lady.
2. It’s unclear why WNA is allowing racist assholes to take over their comment section. One can only assume they condone it. So f*ck y’all.
Why is everyone a “racist” that disagrees? The word has lost its meanest, now all whites are racists just because
History being destroyed.
It is characteristics of a dictatorship.
In this moment these moves are being dictated by a political group that celebrate a singular race and exclude all other races in their narrative.
Are alarm bells not ringing here?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=dOkFXPblLpU
So much for history!
Black Lives Matter is largely a pseudo-radical movement that manipulates the good-will of others to divide people and attain unearned power. If you want to change society, start with yourself, start at home.
They should just shut up…right!
What has all this accomplished??
•
5/26 – 4 officers fired for murdering George Floyd
5/28 Univ of Minn cancels contract with police
5/28 3rd precinct police station neutralized by protestors
5/28 ATU Local 1005 refuses to bring police officers to protests, or transport arrested protesters
5/29 Activists commander hotel to provide shelter to homeless
5/29 Officer Chauvin who killed Floyd arrested
5/29 Louisville Mayor suspends “no-knock” warrants in response to polices 3/12
5/30 US Embassies across Africa condemn police murder of Floyd
5/30 MN AG Ellison takes over prosecution of the murdering officer
5/30 TWU Local 100 bus operators refuse to transport arrests protestors
5/31 2 abusive officers fired for pulling a couple out of car and tasing them
6/1 Minn public schools end contract with police
6/1 Confederate Monument removed – Birmingham, AL
6/1 CA prosecutors launch campaign to stop DA’s from accepting police union money
6/1 Tulsa Mayor Bynum agrees to not renew Live PD contract
6/1 Louisville police chief fired after shooting of David Mcatee at BBQ joint
6/1 Dems and reps begin push to shut down a Pentagon program that transfers military weaponry to cancels contract with police
6/2 Minn AFL-CIO calls for the resignation of Bob Kroll, the president of the Minn police union (Bob Kroll is a vocal white supremest)
6/2 ATU Local 85 announces refusal to transport police officers or arrest protestors
6/2 Racist Ex-Mayor Rizzo statue removed
6/2 6 abusive officers charged for violence against residents and protestors – Atlanta, GA
6/2 Confederate soldier statue removed – Alexandire, VA
6/2 Robert Lee statue removed
6/2 Civil Rights investigation of Minn Police Dept launched
6/2 Resolution to prevent law enforcement from hiring officers with history of misconduct announced by San Fran DA Boudin and Supervisor Walton
6/2 Survey indicating 64% of polled sympathetic to protestors, and 47% disapprove of police handling + 54% think burning down of precinct fully or partially justified
6/2 NJ AG announces policing reforms
6/2 Minn City Council members publicly call for disbanding the police and replace safety and outreach capacity
6/3 1 officer fired for tweets promoting violence against protestors – Denver, Co
6/3 Minn Institute of Art, First Avenue, Walker Art Center end use of MPD for events
6/3 Officer Chauvin charged and taken into custody
6/3 Officer Chauvin charges upgraded to 2nd Murder, ad remaining 3 officers also charged and taken into custody
6/3 VA Gov announces removal of Robert E Lee statue
6/3 Richmond VA Mayor Stoney announces RPD reform measures: establish “Marcus” alert for folks experiencing mental health crisis, establish independent Citizen Review Board, an ordinance to remove Confederate monuments, and implement racial equity study
6/3 County commissioners deny proposal for $23 million expansion of Fulton County jail
6/3 Minn Parks and Rec cut ties with the Minn Police Dep.
6/3 US Army tells soldiers to disobey any orders to attack peaceful protestors – nationwide
6/3 LA Announces $100-150 million cut from LAPD budget, Reinvested into communities, moratorium on gang database, sharper discipline against abusive cops, in effect immediately
6/3 Seattle changes mind and withdraws request to end federal oversight/consent decree of police department
6/4 Breonna Taylor case reopened?
6/4 Portland schools superintendent ‘discontinues’ presence of armed police officers in schools
6/4 MBTA (Metro Boston) board orders that buses wont transport police to protests, or protestors to police
6/4 King County Labor Federation issue ultimatum to police unions, to admit to and address racism in Seattle PD, or be removed
6/5 NY Gov Cuomo announces “Say Their Name” reform agenda, to make police disciplinary records transparent, ban chokeholds, make false race-based 911 reports a hate crime, and AG must act as independent prosecutor for any police murder case
6/5 Minneapolis bans chokeholds and neck restraints by police & requires officers to stop any other officers they see using improper force
6/7 Minneapolis City Counsel members annouce intent to disband the Police Department, invest in proven community led public safety.
6/7 In San Francisco, the board of supervisors is considering a resolution introduced last week that would urge the civil service commission there to prohibit hiring officers with a history of serious misconduct.
6/8 Congressional Democrats unveil sweeping police reform bill that would ban chokeholds, no-knock warrants in drug cases. The bill, called the “Justice in Policing Act.”
6/9 In a Historic Victory, NY Legislature Repeals 50-A, Requiring Full Disclosure of Police Disciplinary Records.
That’s great but when do we expect BLM to address the real actual problem here which is the institution of black violent crime not only against other black people but every other major American demographic in disproportionate numbers than the reverse? When will action and accountability be taken there? Because we both know that the statistics tell us lethal violence by police against black people is less than it is against Hispanics and Whites. We also know black people commit far more violent crime against Hispanics and Whites than the reverse. When will these gross injustices be not only denounced but corrected and stopped?
You keep harping on these statistics of black violence, but your position is paper thin. I really want to know what you attribute this disproportionate violence to. Is there a reason for it all? Are black people inherently savage? Are they cognitively inferior? Or is it just a big mystery to you, and you don’t care to explore the issue in any depth? Please – tell us WHY America is in a situation where black people cause disproportionate violence.
I keep harping on the statistics because instead of using them to promote a corrective narrative what BLM is doing is ignoring them and making up false narratives that literally do not exist to further their totalitarian agenda which happens to be false and not supported by any data or statistics. My position is supported by facts, statistics, and data. Your position is supported by feelings and the blame game for things that happened an infinity ago. Stop with that insulting argument. The main institution that needs to be abolished and broken up in America is black violent crime. Get those numbers way down and we can then focus on the rest. You have to walk before you can crawl. Nobody is going to take you seriously when the group you are trying to make excuses for has those types of disproportionate statistics. Its madness trying to use that type of flawed logic.
No, really. I want to know – what do you think is the cause? If black violent crime is the main institution that needs to be abolished, then surely you have some insight as to what might be driving it. I told you why I think it happens, but you reject my reasoning. Don’t dodge my questions, please humor me with a hypothesis based on your facts, statistics, and data.
Causation takes a step further than correlation. It says any change in the value of one variable will cause a change in the value of another variable, which means one variable makes other to happen. It is also referred as cause and effect.
Here is the problem with your position. We have people who come to America from all over the world from countries with social dysfunction, bad socioeconomic conditions, and oppression who don’t even speak English when they arrive here yet they are able to thrive and become productive members of American society. They are able to get an education and they are able to get jobs. Many of these people come here from Africa, Middle East, and India all areas where there is still slavery to this very day. How is it these oppressed people can come here and succeed and thrive when a group of people who were born here with every advantage known to man compared to someone born in for example Ghana, Nigeria, India, Yemen, or Syria can’t stop killing each other and everyone else in a disproportionate manner? How is this possible? How are these oppressed minorities from half way around the world able to overcome?
What you are participating in with your question is “kafkatrapping” which is logical fallacy that is popular within racial politics and other ideologies of victimhood. It occurs when you are accused of a thought crime such as sexism, racism or homophobia. I respond with a rejection of your ‘feeling’ logic, which you then try and turn around on me after I have told you explicitly why we should look at the statistics and data we have to fix this issue NOT made up ones that are not backed by fact. I am now trapped in a circular and unfalsifiable argument; no one who is accused can be innocent because the structure of kafkatrapping precludes that possibility. Nothing I say can or will satisfy your feelings, emotions, or excuse making. We have the data on police violence against American citizens and who is most impacted. We have the data on not only violent crime but also interracial violent crime and we know who the most impacted groups are. Those groups are not who BLM is telling us they are. Its a lie. To ignore this part makes your question a nonstarter from the get go. So called white supremacy is not the reason for these statistics. White people or any other people cannot solve these horrific statistics. Only black people can do that. You are going to have to present this data to BLM or their supporters and ask them why they are not focusing on it and instead are focusing on issues that are either miniscule compared to the reverse or issues that are outright fabrications and lies.
According to Google: “The term “kafkatrapping” describes a logical fallacy that is popular within gender feminism, racial politics and other ideologies of victimhood. It occurs when you are accused of a thought crime such as sexism, racism or homophobia.”
Wow you are evasive. I don’t buy your kafkatrapping argument. I never accused you of racism – in fact I wrote earlier that I don’t think you’re a racist, just an ignoramus with an overly simplistic view of causality. I simply want to know what you attribute as the cause of the disproportionate violence? You present all these statistics, but refuse to infer a context for them. Instead, you just talk about how black people should simply do better. “Get those numbers way down and we can then focus on the rest. You have to walk before you can crawl.” – what is this nonsensical crap?
I posed a logical argument. If you want to deny that there is logic to it and gaslight me in bad faith about how it is “emotional”, then I don’t think we have anything else to discuss. However, I am game for reasonable debate. None of this occurs in a vacuum – problems have reasons. So what reasons do you suppose?
I posed a logical answer which is:
Stop killing yourselves and everyone else in disproportionate numbers.
Stop committing crimes. Period. Do I need to insert the Jim Carrey meme here? Telling me that institutions are the reasons for out of control crime numbers in 2020 is irrational and risible. White people can’t solve that nor are they responsible. Latino people can’t solve that nor are they responsible. Asian people can’t solve that nor are they responsible. Black people need to look in the mirror and accept what the data, statistics, and facts tell us and work together to stop it. Instead what is happening? We have a totalitarian group in BLM that ignore every single statistic and instead make up a fake fraudulent narrative that isn’t supported by any numbers or data and make demands. That isn’t how it works. I was one of these gullible people who once bought into this false narrative until I took the time to look at the real numbers. Those numbers paint a very sadistic and out of control reality that is ignored while instead blaming others for your many failures. I won’t participate in such. If the numbers said or supported what BLM claims believe me I would be the first person to acknowledge that. I am well aware of what being discriminated against is like for something that you can’t change. The whole BLM movement was born out of “hands up don’t shoot” which we know from video and court testimony from eyewitnesses was you guessed it a lie. That doesn’t even include all the violent crime data and data we have of police brutality and violence which points in other directions than what BLM claims it does. Stop the insanity and work to fix this abhorrent mess that is the institution of black violent crime in America.
Oooh Mark! You keep dodging the question presented to you! I’m over talking to you. Deniability is no longer an option for White America!
UPDATE (June 12, 2020): OK Cafe Owner Removes Georgia Flag With Rebel Emblem In Total Reversal > https://whtnw.com/2zq8En8
Send us the same owner that used to tell her staff not to see black people by the windows? Isn’t this the same woman has never had a black manager?
Yeah I’m sure she’s not racist